The ZONE Podcast: Nerdy News and Reviews
We, the Zealots of Nerd Entertainment (or the ZONE Alliance), are a group of eople talking about old and new movies, television shows, video games, and everything else in nerd/pop culture!
The ZONE Podcast: Nerdy News and Reviews
Dragon Ball Super: The Xtreme Review (Manga)
Unlock the secrets of Dragon Ball Super's most thrilling sagas as we unravel the mysteries behind Goku and Vegeta's epic journeys. From mastering new techniques like Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego to grappling with moral dilemmas that could reshape the universe, you'll uncover the heart-pounding moments that define these iconic characters. Are you ready to explore the enigmatic Galactic Patrol, Moro's planet-devouring antics, and the unexpected heroes who rise to the occasion?
Our conversation takes you through the unexpected twists and turns introduced by Akira Toriyama's storytelling choices, including the surprising addition of the Galactic Patrol and their hilarious oversight during past intergalactic crises. Explore the fascinating connections woven through the Dragon Ball universe, where interlinked stories bring characters like Granola and Uub into the spotlight in remarkable ways. We'll unravel the complexities of character development, from Gohan's personal struggles to Piccolo's ongoing journey of transformation, blending humor and insight for a truly engaging discussion.
As we journey deeper, we'll ponder the possibilities of future Dragon Ball adventures and transformations, imagining the wild potential of Capsule Corp's space ventures and cross-universe training opportunities. Speculate with us on what might come next for our beloved Saiyans and their allies, and how new arcs could redefine the very fabric of this legendary series. Join our passionate, humorous conversation that pays tribute to the creativity and dedication of the Dragon Ball fan community, and get ready to be entertained and inspired by the endless possibilities that await in the Dragon Ball universe.
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DISCLAIMER: The thoughts and opinions shared within are those of the speaker. We encourage everyone to do their own research and to experience the content mentioned at your own volition. We try not to reveal spoilers to those who are not up to speed, but in case some slips out, please be sure to check out the source material before you continue listening!
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- J.B.
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all right, we are here. We're gonna go ahead and close out the dragon ball super extreme review with the manga arts. We're gonna talk about the moral saga, the granola, the survivor saga and the superhero arc. You know it was a movie first but then it got adapted into the manga, so let's just go ahead and get into that.
Speaker 1:So, starting with the moro arc, we have goku and vegeta getting recruited by galactic patrol to round up criminals across the galaxy. You have have Moro, the planet eater, breaking out of prison to go galactus on some planets. The dynamic duo returns to New Namek to get clapped by Moro. The prince and the pauper go to their separate ways temporarily to be training. Goku trains with the angel in training Merus, while Vegeta trains on planet Yardrat to learn this secret technique. Now Moro finds the Dragon Balls, becomes younger and he makes a secret wish for all prisoners of Galactic Prison to be released and the Z-Fighters on Earth are prepared for a battle. For when Moro and his faction shows up Now, while things weren't looking good against Moro's faction, vegeta saved Goku as a mirror to the opposite happening on Namek, to where Vegeta was getting beat up bad by Frieza, and then Goku showed up like a hero, like a knight in shining armor, but it's like a reverse in this case, where now it's Vegeta's turn to come help out Goku.
Speaker 1:And Vegeta reveals that the secret technique that he learned was forced spirit fission but I prefer just spirit fission for short of the comma Counter Moro's energy stealing, because, remember, part of the reason why Goku and Vegeta lost to Moro's energy stealing, because, remember, part of the reason why Goku and Vegeta lost to Moro in the first round was because, oh, he's a magic user and he's also draining their powers, kind of like what Android 19 and 20 was doing. And, by the way, we're going to talk about that just a little bit when we break down, but stay with me. So Moro literally eats Seven-Three to become an even younger version of himself and I'm like I'll suck all over again. But you know, merus breaks the rules of the angels to help awaken Moro, then vanishes for it. This causes a repeat of the Super Saiyan For the first time moment in Dragon Ball Z, with Goku vs Frieza, you know, krillin being defeated, and then Goku Kinda sort of master Ultra Instinct for real, this time Asterisk Goku, while he was. Kinda sort of massive ultra instinct for real, this time Asterisk Goku While he was beating Moro.
Speaker 1:Here's the part that pissed me off, when I'm like you know what. Maybe Maybe I gave him too much credit During the Cell Saga, but the fact that Goku gave this motherfucker A god damn sensu bean Just for his charity To be immediately backfired. So Moro ends up Fusing with the planet. Goku apparently have a Susanoo. He finishes off Moro With a spirit bomb, with Uub offering his energy elsewhere. Merus gets revived but loses angel status, and then Granola arrives at the end of the arc to clean up the 7-3 clones and whatnot. But that's about it. That's like the play-by-play for the most part for the Moro arc. What do you guys think about that arc? I played for the most part for the moral arc, but cool you guys doing about that arc so the moral arc are officially supposed to be known as the galactic patrol prisoner arc.
Speaker 2:First off, one is that this thing was confusing for a little bit at first, because we get an introduction to like the galactic patrol, but the way we get introduced to them is as if, like all of a sudden, bulma has already knew them and you're like what do you mean? You are it's like oh yeah, this is so. I'll be honest with you me as a person reading this. I'm like did I miss something? I've read since all the way back at Dragon Ball bro. I'm a long-time fan of this series. I'm like what? I a long time fan of this series.
Speaker 1:I'm like what, I ain't never heard nothing about no galactic patrol or something like that so I mean it's one thing with jaco, but I'm like you really know about the whole galactic patrol the whole time like who is jaco like?
Speaker 2:who is this dude that just showed up and all of a sudden just knows people? Like what is happening? I was like vegeta vegeta's, like who are you like? Who are you? Who is this? Who is this? Like I'm confused and I'm like was this an attempt to just throw a background story? The background like world building, and I'm confused. It was a bunch of stuff that was lost there. But they wound up explaining it in the anime with a little throwaway thing. And when I say in the, they made like an actual.
Speaker 2:There's a bunch of these little clips from like random movies that never really made their way to America. So understand that if you think you've seen all of Dragon Ball, you have not seen all of Dragon Ball. Like there's stuff that was kind of like Japan exclusive and is like one of those things. So Bulma has a sister and yeah, like you, you don't, you don't need her at all whatsoever. So boma has a sister. She's super smart too, of course, and da, da, da. But what happens is is that she actually goes and joins the galactic patrol.
Speaker 1:A long time ago. I don't remember her name. It's like it translated to bloomers somehow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like bloomers or something like that. I mean, considering the fact that the whole briefs family Is named after underwear, even though, dr Briefs, you find out that brief is actually not his First name, it's his actual last name. But yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot. But for real, though, tights that's her name. Tights yeah, yeah, there was. It's hilarious, but yeah, so she's Bulma's older sister. She goes and she joins, she winds up joining the Galactic Patrol for a little while, and so she got to know Jocko. And that's how it is that Bulma knows Jocko and how we get introduced to the Galactic Patrol.
Speaker 2:And I'm just sitting here like If you knew, because apparently this happened like a long time ago. Okay, this is one of those things that happened like a long time ago, because she's that much older than Bulma. I think she's like eight or ten years older than Bulma. So my thing about this is this 8 or 10 years older than Bulma. So my thing about this is this why the hell did you not call the Galactic Patrol when you heard about Frieza? That doesn't make no sense to me. I'm confused.
Speaker 1:I mean that's a funny thing, because the Frieza Force, they took over a whole galaxy. It kind of feels like I mean, yeah, we could have done something about Frieza, but like he's way above our pay grade, so I'm like you know, we probably better off just leaving him alone to his own devices and you know what.
Speaker 2:That's fair, but it would have been nice to have known the fact that it's like okay, there's this person going around the universe capturing planets, destroying, killing mass people and selling planets on the black market to other people. It would be nice to know if there's actually a police force.
Speaker 1:You know what? It would be really funny if their official explanation was oh well, the planets in the galaxy that he conquered was outside our jurisdiction. You know, like state lines?
Speaker 2:You mean like in the fucking Indencible series. Yeah, jurisdiction, you know, like state lines. You mean like in the fucking Indencible series.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, that's outside our territory, that's what we do about that that part.
Speaker 1:Honestly, this is the only thing that makes sense, because it has been confirmed that Universe 7 is like apparently 10 times bigger than our universe per se, or at least like much bigger than the Milky Way galaxy as well, so it's like way bigger than we could imagine like think about it, if our universe is like really really big, like not try to overestimate but not at the same time underestimate, if our universe is really big and you're saying that universe 7 and this fictional world, uh building, is 10 times bigger, I'm like what's that even mean? Though, like how can it be 10 times bigger than, like, the observable universe? You know?
Speaker 2:they can just throw in planets, throw in random races and say that yes, it's always, always been there. Okay, because it's way bigger than ours.
Speaker 1:Oh you just gotta believe us, bro. Like it's way bigger, I'm like whatever. That part you could say like three times bigger, and that would still be impressive.
Speaker 2:That part. So, yeah, it was just one of those ones like okay, but yeah, it's been confusing onto that. So it was one of those ones like okay, so Bulma has a sister. We now understand the connection between Bulma and Jaco and apparently he's been there, which still doesn't make sense from previous stuff. But you know what Toriyama has said himself that he's forgotten some of his things before he passed. He was getting old. We get it. So it's going to be retcon after retcon after retcon.
Speaker 2:I mean, look about dragon ball diamond right now, technically it feels like another retcon. Let's just be honest. So we don't know anyway, um, but for real, though, it's like, uh, the moral arc was very interesting because it was one that felt like we got um, like it, it felt like a really good callback, like I like it. Even your brief like a explanation. You mentioned those little things where it's like, yeah, it felt like a really good callback, like I like it. Even your brief like a explanation.
Speaker 2:You mentioned those little things where it's like, yeah, it feels like the cell saga, it feels like the freezing saga. Yeah, more arc was supposed to be a great callback to those things. We got a call back to all of those moments to goku unleashing his susano. Well, master, ultra instinct, or, or um, something I think like, or a person or something like that, but it's like an official title for it, but we just call it susano, which is gonna keep it simple I mean, do you remember when, like okay, it was crazy enough that, yeah, susano was like a big thing when it came to naruto, and then, having a Susanoo, I'm like okay, okay, why, but okay.
Speaker 1:But then next thing you know, it's like everybody got Susanoo, like Korra from All Legend of Korra, superman got Susanoo apparently. Now I'm like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:Look, that's been around for long, long periods of time. Like, think about it, if we're not even thinking about the mecha genre. So I'm not gonna bring up voltron and, uh, empire rangers and stuff like that or even like neon genesis. But let's talk about ultraman. Technically ultraman it becomes almost the same thing, like he kind of grows in size, but there are moments where that's actually nothing but just pure energy that fills him, so he's technically surrounded by pure energy type thing. So, dating back all the way back then, um, mega man had a moment where he had a giant aura form type shit.
Speaker 1:It was weird the 80s and 70s was, uh, the coincidence that you know it was. What really killed me was the fact that not long after goku had this new technique, then we get a comic panel released to, where you know, superman has this ability too, and I'm like it's bad enough that those two things happened like not far away from each other. But also, considering the parallels between Goku and Superman's backstory, it makes it like y'all like pay attention to each other, like that.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean, those writers love that, like most of these writers watch anime to be fair Dragon Ball Super Bro.
Speaker 1:Be fair Dragon Ball Super Broly adapted Dragon Ball Minus so which I'm very happy about um. I mean I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just more like, just based off the backstory it's like okay, kinda like makes it more on the nose that it kinda feels like a Superman backstory. But I'm not complaining about it, I'm just saying, like you know, I mean how else you gonna get off the fucking planet?
Speaker 2:That part. But yeah, so it was like so we had all those callbacks. We had the callback to the Super Saiyan with the Master Ultra Instinct. We've had the callback to the super saiyan with the master ultra instinct.
Speaker 2:If you had to call back to where, uh goku, once he breached that, that form, like that real, that true perfected form, even though, again, it was only for a limited amount of time, he's still like completely scolded moro by crouching down and saying, yeah, you're actually not that powerful, type shit. And I'm like, bro, he was just whooping your ass, don't be doing this, don't be doing this like he did with frieza. It was like, oh, it's supposed to be some galactic planet destroyer, planet danger to the universe, type shit. Huh, where have I heard that before? Type shit. I'm like, wow, you really on that.
Speaker 2:Type shit goku, okay, okay, like like he wasn't just giving you the one hand, two hand two. But the thing about it is is that, of course, it doesn't last long but, like you said, he winds up having to consume, winds up consuming other versions of himself per se in order to become more powerful. So we got a call back to that with the cell saga. He used the dragon balls to wish himself younger, not for immortality, but his younger version. That's a call back to king piccolo and to lord slug, because that was the thing for them as being the mechians is that they just got weaker as they got older. They didn't want immortality.
Speaker 1:Hold on. That's crazy, because with dragon ball diamond they're doing that all over again and shenron was like hesitant but I kind of went to hit the same thing with mora. I was was like hold on, this sounds familiar. Whatever, let's go.
Speaker 2:So we got the callbacks to that one then, and then we got the callbacks to the Boo saga when we find out, of course we already knew about Oob, but then, understanding the fact that Fat Boo, the reason that his entity is still separate from Oob which is pretty interesting Do we actually get an explanation to this?
Speaker 2:Because it's like, okay, majin buu and oob technically are like the same person, they have a connection with each other, but how is it they both are able to exist at the same time? It doesn't quite make sense and it winds up being we get a brief explanation onto that that is actually the good old grand kai. The old grand kai that majin buu absorbed, that turned him into fat boo in the first place, is what wound up. Still how. It's still housed inside of him. It's still housed inside of his conscious and it's the main thing that makes this boo stupid per se, but also kind of good, where he's like, he's willing to understand morals, he's willing to try to learn things, because he has the ultimate goodness combat constantly and at odds and battling against this so I like the implication that oob is the reincarnation of kid boo and meanwhile, uh, mr boo is more like the reincarnation of the old grand kaiba, in modding form yes, and so that's kind of what we have into, because with the spirit bomb erases all evil, that's what the spirit bomb does.
Speaker 2:So the thing about it is, even though they ripped out on modding fat boo out of kid boo, out of super boo and turn them back into kid boo per se, there was still an inkling of that left, because there was an inkling of possible goodness still in. There is why the spirit bomb did not fully eradicate Kid Buu and made him, like, completely disappear. The little pieces that were left were purified with us purified and then implanted into a new baby and that's how we wound up getting Oop and hold on like?
Speaker 1:didn't they say that the Modgins are getting involved in? See, honestly, this might get stretched, but I really wish Maju would just make a debut in this yeah, but that's gonna be just GT only we're gonna see, I mean, but that's going to be just GT only.
Speaker 1:We're going to see, I mean, but that's just the thing, like, isn't it kind of sort of? I mean, I'm not saying it's rebooting GT, but it's almost like the same sort of premise at first and you're like, I mean, I mean, at this point I consider GT canon, but I also believe it could be an alternate universe or alternate timeline or thing.
Speaker 2:It's an alternate timeline canon, Like it's not canon to the normal storyline. There's still no way of fitting that into that Because it doesn't line up.
Speaker 1:Dyma could be like the GT of the main continuity. So I'm like it could be like GT but retold.
Speaker 2:Could I mean we're gonna see what happens. We're only on episode two. Episode three drops at the time of our recording, drops this friday, so we'll see there's only 20 total in the episode counting.
Speaker 1:We don't even know if there's gonna be like a season two. It's supposed to be like a uh, mini series, like it's supposed to be predetermined. So we don't really know what's going to be going on beyond that.
Speaker 2:But so toriyama had already pre-wrote out daima before he passed. So if we think further than this, if we do want to getting a season two, it might wind up being like completely handled with toyotaro. So I'm not sure how he feels about doing that. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:I mean, all we can hope for is that he does his best on it true, but yeah, so, um, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So we get that call back with Majin Buu, and I think the craziest thing to me was seeing Majin Buu's face turned into the old grandkai he's like. He's like, hey, so all of my power even though I'm fat, but technically I'm nowhere near as powerful as I used to be All of my power and energy went to you. And then we had that like Goku Spirit Bomb just grew ten sizes that day. He was like holy shit, where the fuck did this come from? And he was like I'm not complaining about it, whatever it is, yeah, um, but yeah, um. My favorite part of this is, as you already know, vege has still been my favorite character, and so I was happy that he got that moment of like you know what I need to understand more about energy, because Wiz has actually told him this plenty of times before. He's like you're a great strategist.
Speaker 2:What makes Goku so much better is that he has a natural thing about controlling energy. Goku learned at a young age about understanding ki, understanding what it really means of using it as your own life energy, and that's how, like humans, are able to even achieve things like a command, mail wave and flight and stuff like that in the universe, in this, in this series. So it's like he's learned about ki control from that moment on. So the thing about it is, even though, yeah, he's the same, he was born with ki control. He was born being able to utilize key, but not understanding what key control actually means yet, and so that's where it became like a big difference into and it's like great, you've learned to condense and harness your key. That's how you achieve from god to super saiyan blue. But that's still not enough. That's just condensing it, that's not actually having control of it. And the thing about it is that we see within the series, multiple even Moro has done it where he shapes his ki into the form of weapons. Realistically, how many of our Z fighters do that Every single time that you see them win fights, every time they go up against these enemies? These enemies are not just shooting beam attacks out of everywhere, like they haven't done that since the fucking Freeza arc. So once we entered, like Cell arc and stuff, it wasn't just shooting blasts all the time. Even Cell kind of had a little bit more control of his ki and how he did things.
Speaker 2:You know, back in Dragon Ball you shoot a command main wave and you could control where it goes. It's not just a straight shot and you're like, oh my god, it just keeps going on and on forever. I hate this is the weirdest thing to say, but it's the absolute truth into this. Yamcha has key control. Yamcha his spirit ball and his command mail wave. He's done this twice where he has shown that he can stop it and control the direction that it goes. His spirit ball, where he's controlling where it goes and using it to slice through or, like power, through his enemies and stuff like that. That is key control. That's not condensing key and just throwing it. That's controlling where it goes. And so that's one of those things.
Speaker 2:I'm like vegeta, you grew up as a saiyan and you grew up as a saiyan. He went around just doing everything. Everything to you was always a straightforward blast. There was no control.
Speaker 2:Vegeta has never shown himself being able to control, even like his gallic gun.
Speaker 2:If he shoots it it's a straight fire attack.
Speaker 2:If he misses, he just lets it go and then goes around doing whatever and he's like you've just lost all of that key, you just wasted all of that energy. It just keeps going into a straight shot, you don't actually have control of it. Goku has enough control of it to where, back in Dragon Ball, he shot a command mail. Wave out his fucking feet. Goku has enough control of his ki. We've already been through the tournament power to where he was able to harness his own ki in his command way. Instead of shooting it immediately, was able to use it to ride up Kefla's blast, to creating that absolute difference of energy, creating that magnetism of energy and shit. Goku shows he control but Vegeta doesn't. So we finally get an understanding of what fission is supposed to be, and I like that. We actually had an entire chapter dedicated to explaining that, and it was one of those ones I'm chapter dedicated to explaining that, and it was one of those ones I'm like I like that. I like that we get an actual understanding.
Speaker 1:That one part in Team Four, star Bridge, where you know that part, when Vegeta hit the final flash and it kind of grazed him a a lot but you know he regenerated that shit and then Vegeta got mad and just started firing Ki blasts out of random. And then Cell said the perfect Line for that Friends, has this ever Worked? I'm like, bro, like when you think about it, I'm like bro, you Wasting ki blasts Like crazy, like just cause you mad.
Speaker 1:I'm like bro, like when you think about it, I'm like bro you've been wasting Keyblast like crazy, like just cause you mad that your Opponent is not dying as easily as you Thought it would.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, that's like everyone knows that's a Vegeta panic attack Once Vegeta hits that Keyblast. But the thing about it is that we've seen other characters Do it, but it's always been strategic. Even Goku's done it. If he's done the Ki Blast, I think what We've seen him do it in two movies. Every time he's done the Ki Blast it was either to in those two movies we wound up seeing him guiding his opponent to a particular area so that way he could attack them. We've seen him do it with against Zamasu and, if I'm correct, against it was indeterminate power. But he did it to incapacitate his opponent. He didn't just start spamming, he knocked the opponent down to somewhere and then started blasting them down while they were still like recovering. It was like okay, I'm not gonna let you recover and start juggling type thing. Vegeta just spams, jesus. Vegeta's just like and that's Bali, keep, that's Bali. Whatever hits you hits you, I guess.
Speaker 1:For all those Dragon Ball games where you have all those different techniques and I'm like when did they ever name these techniques? They really didn't. It's more like you just remember that one episode when they did it and it was like okay, let's just slap a generic name to it.
Speaker 2:You want to know a random ki blast. That actually got a name in the story, but it's also an absolute showcase of ki control. My second favorite character, Hellzone Grenade Technically it actually was not named that in the actual anime it was named in the manga it was that's the thing like a sworn.
Speaker 1:He said it once in the anime not in the anime.
Speaker 2:He just said, ah, you're trapped, and then like closes it together. But um, even in japanese version he doesn't really call out a name into it, but in the manga he does.
Speaker 1:Okay, hold on. I was remembering light grenade. He may have said that in the anime.
Speaker 2:Oh no, so light grenade is where he just charged up the really big one and just threw it. That was what he did in 17. Now Hellzone grenade is where he spammed a whole bunch of attacks and 17 is like you're not even hitting me. And he's like, oh, the point is not to hit you. And he was like all these balls were just all wrapped around him and then like uh, wait a minute, wait, oh shit and CTFS is perfect into this L zone grenade oh, it's even got a cool name.
Speaker 2:Oh jeez to this L-Zone Grenade it's even got a cool name.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like how Piccolo and Nail they're like going back and forth about names. I was like I don't know about that. No, fuck you, I'm keeping that one.
Speaker 2:That part, that part. So yeah, we get all the.
Speaker 2:It feels great because we get all these wonderful callbacks, we get an opportunity to explore in the other two arts watch yeah, I'm gonna be honest, the granola arc wasn't so much a callback into it, it just finally gave us explanations that we've been asking for per se at least to me per se, I say that but but that all I got for the Moro arc is the fact that we got all these lists of callbacks and it finally feels like it ties Z together with Super. Like Moro, was that one of like? You know, like I said, we get King Piccolo, all those villains, every week back to him In some form or fact.
Speaker 1:I like how, when you talk about Connecting storylines, how this is the first time in a while, since Dragon Ball Super started, that storylines are now being connected to where, between Battle of Gods all the way up to Tournament of Power, you could have said that, oh well, these are just totally different artists that have nothing to do with each other. Uh, aside from you know, uh, resurrection of um frieza shows um returns and then he just shows up again during the turn of power. But like, outside of that, it's like the arcs don't have a whole lot to do. I mean, some of them are like loosely connected, but then again they could have been like something on their own, like it just didn't feel very connected towards each other, like they just committed stories of their own. But this is the first time to where, ok, as soon as you finish one arc, the next arc bleeds right in. Next arc bleeds right in, like I was saying at the end, to where Granola was trying to get rid of the Morrow Claws. I think that was Trying to clean that up and trying to retrieve the head, the remains of 7-3 for the heaters, and we're going to talk about the Granola arc in just a moment. So with the Granola arc, let's go ahead and roll right into that one, since I can't get my notes up again.
Speaker 1:Alright, so Granola, a bounty hunter, retrieves the remains of 734, the Heater, Alec, maki, oil and Gas. We learn that Granola is an alien from Planet Cereal. Learned that Grinnell is an alien from Planet Cereal and he's a survivor of his homeworld's destruction to the Saiyans over, I want to say, at least more than 40 years, depending on how Goku's like 40 now on this timeline, I'm trying to think Maybe like a little. I mean, I think he's like 50 in GT. They said that he's like 50 or so in GT. I'm just scaling it back for For sake of driving most people like, let's just Say he's like in his early To mid 40s.
Speaker 1:Uh yeah, like At least 40 or so years ago, with Bard up being involved In the attack, while the Frieza 4 dominated Galaxies by force. The heaters years ago, with bard up being involved in the attack, while the freezer force dominated galaxies by force, the heaters were the exact opposite, where they use indirect strategy to manipulate people and achieve their goals in the shadows. Like they will be the type of person that will like, instigate, you know, like um, because you ever grew up with that one kid in school. It's where they always trying to instigate fights like it'll be like random people and it's like, uh, that instigator be going to um person a, be like, hey, I heard person b zips this and this about you. Then I'll slide a person b and say the same thing about person a and then next thing you know I fight breaks out and you come to find out that was all because somebody else just want know a fight breaks out and you come to find out that it was all because somebody else Just wanted to see a fight break out.
Speaker 2:Always. I have plenty of people that I have known. Like that. Unfortunately, that's pretty much the leaders.
Speaker 1:They're the ones where they will instigate wars With two other factions Just to make it easier for them To manage things throughout the universe. And while this was happening, vegeta was trained with Beerus to gain God of Destruction powers. And Beerus tells Vegeta that he's the one that hired Frieza to destroy the Saiyans. But to this day, it feels a little unsatisfying the way Vegeta finds out, like I would have felt better about it if Frieza, like if they saved that to the near end. And Frieza was like oh yeah, vegeta, did Beerus ever tell you? I'm like, tell me what I'm like, that he's what I'm like, that he's the one who hired me to pull up the planet Because I wanted to feel like more, like a betrayal. It's like oh, so you've been training us and all this shit the whole time, meanwhile you're the one who why all this shit happened. You know, I don't know, I just didn't like the way it was done. But whatever, it is what it is, but anyway, granolah.
Speaker 1:He makes a wish to become the strongest in the universe and that doesn't last very long, as I will tell you in a moment While investigating the ruined planet. In serial, granolah fights Goku, then Vegeta. So normally it's like Vegeta then Goku, but once again, kind of like with the more August, like all the way around and with Vegeta stepping in With his God of Destruction powers, he gains his new transformation, ultra Ego. Then that's when Gas, the trump card of the Heaters, steps in, attacks Gokuku, vegeta and granola. Oh, by the way, goku, no, no, I said that, I said it my bad, forgetting already. Uh, we, he gives goku, you know like how goku have to like anti-transmission away, just to kind of uh re-strategize, uh regroup and whatnot. And then we give Goku some tips on how to use ultra instinct more effectively. But most importantly, it must be Goku's own style, because ultimately he has to remember that he must embrace and remember his same physiology and past. So he uses Ultra Instinct's sign to utilize his more Saiyan like techniques. It's also been made very clear that Alette don't really care for his brother Gas or the other's well-being, only that they're useful. And Goku tried to talk no jutsu to Gas, but surprise, surprise, it didn't work.
Speaker 1:A let wish that Gas is the strongest in the universe, but that wish Literally crumbled as Gas decays as he continues fighting and, in the perfect swerve, frieza returns. Frieza kills Gas With ease. Then a let. Then he reveals his newest form, black Freeza, gained from training in another Hyperbolic time chamber somewhere else For like 10 days Normal time, so that's 10 years in the chamber. Uh, he Knocks out Goku and Vegeta With one blow each and then, before leaving, he hires Maki and Oil as servants. And that's when the uh Oracle tells him that, oh yeah, the strongest in the universe is finally coming, and I was like, okay, well, sounds like we need to do some training. So, with that being said, that's the Granola arc in a nutshell. I know there was like a lot more, but I'm just giving you the play-by-play for the most part. So, kogu Yasu, your thoughts on the Granola Arc.
Speaker 2:Granola Arc was very interesting. I guess, even just like little points to point into it is the fact that like, yeah, alec doesn't really care, he cares about money, he cares about gaining what needs to be done. The biggest thing about it is that he wants to take down Freeza. He hates that there's someone else that's bigger and badder than him, because then we understand a little bit more about the story of the Heaters. It's the fact that they were just that, people. They were, like you said, instigators, but they were ones that had money, had control, until Freeza showed up and at that moment they had to realize that it was either bow down or die. So it was like bow down or lay down.
Speaker 2:What was we going to do? And it's like I guess you know, they had a long time planned, like years. They had been planning for years to try to take down Freeza and finally got the perfect opportunity with Granola. So I took advantage of him and I like Granola is very useful. I like how things went for him, because the first we finally got our first call back to gt, like actual call back to gt, because of who he is, and he was just like oh okay, so we've been, so we're bringing baby into this and it's like no, not really. I'm like okay, well, never mind, but was like okay, so we finally actually get something in there. And then understanding, like Vegeta being like oh, I know your planet, yeah, yeah, we destroyed that shit.
Speaker 1:Planet here we go.
Speaker 2:Y'all was weak as fuck, that shit. But this is a whole different type of Vegeta, though it was just like you know what. It's very different. Wishing on the Dragon Balls was probably the biggest key point here is the fact that the factors that came into point of understanding with Granola. He was like, hey, I want to be the strongest in the universe. And Shinran had to tell him. He was like you can do this, but I'm going to be fair, be honest with you. You don't have the capabilities of being the strongest. I'll have to push your body beyond his limits to do so, and because you're not working towards it and you don't have the potential to be, where I'm about to put you at is going to kill you. I'm going to have to shorten your lifespan, like by a lot. And he was like fuck it, I don't care, I'll do it. And he's like you're going to be, you're're only gonna have a few months left to live, because you have to take damn near all your life. And he's like that I need to work quickly these few months. I need to locate frieza, kill his ass and you locate the saiyans. That's still apparently they're still alive that I'm hearing about. You need to kill their asses too. Fuck everybody, type shit. So we get that.
Speaker 2:But then also we're coming understanding with gas too. Gas is is very powerful. But we had the same issue that happened to him, but this one was one where I felt, I felt bad into this. Gas did all of this for his family. He's like I love my brother, I love my sister and you know we're doing this type of thing. He's like I got this, but elect never told him what the consequence of the wish was. Gas never knew that him being the strongest meant that it was going to kill his life, completely, destroy his lifespan, and just like what happens with kyo ken. Because we finally get it, we get it um, not finally, but we get a call back to that. Because there's still speculation that goku learning the kyo ken and even with um king kai telling him that over pushing yourself in the in the Kaio-Ken would have dire consequences, and so it's still speculation. It's never been completely proven, but speculation that the Kaio-Ken I didn't say that wasn't a whole lot, I said there was more of explanations that was given. I'm about to get to that, anyway, but no, so then we get that call back, but we do kind of get caught up with that point of like oh, overusing kyo kim may have been what gave goku his heart attack again, nothing canon, but most people still speculate that's what happened, so we get that.
Speaker 2:But then the best thing about it is not the best, sorry, the worst thing about it is understanding gas's face when he realizes this point. He realizes the fact that his brother just left him to die and never told him. But then he this is one of those ones that you know, go go listen to our inside out review when I say this. But understanding that making excuses for other people's nonsense, um, there are people will use us and we'll try to do everything they can. Uh, companies do it all the time. They'll use us and do us for everything they want to do and use us until we're dry and then kind of throw us away. That's literally what elected to gas. He was like you're only as useful as far as I can use you. He would.
Speaker 2:Gas was the strongest one. He was the strongest one, he was the fighter, but he was nowhere near strong enough. But to push him to be strong enough, it had to near kill him. And elect was like fuck it if it means that we accomplish what we need to accomplish, we'll do this shit. Who the fuck cares? And it was like that moment of him understanding that.
Speaker 2:But then he had that. He made an excuse. My brother knew what he was doing. He knew this because he knew that he trusted that I could get this accomplished. He knew I was going to do this. And alex face when he was just like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, ha, that's right. You're thinking it's right, that's right. I knew, I knew I trusted you, that's right. And it's like no, nigga, that's not what the fuck it was. You just a little fucking dog, you're a fucking ass. That's literally what you. You're a grimy piece of shit. You did this to your brother. You're a piece of shit. But literally, that's a whole mindset when you've been with someone for so long who's been abusing you and forcibly using you to do whatever they wanted to happen.
Speaker 2:So I felt really bad for Gas at this point. But unfortunately, he still wound up electing himself to go figure, electing himself, wow Letting himself to believe that elect had a plan in action for it and wanted to use it for a particular reason. And so what winds up happening at this point is that both of these niggas is dying. Both of these niggas is dying, but because of the fact that Gas decided to push himself to 100% power, it shortened his lifespan even more and that's why he started decaying. But at this point he's like fuck it, we here, we're going to do whatever we're going to do.
Speaker 2:When Freeza shows up, gives the coldest fucking line and it's the most hilarious and coldest fucking line and it's like we wish to be the strongest in the universe. He's like, really, it's. I guess that would make sense if I was in this universe, that you'd probably be stronger than me. And he's like wait, what he was like. What it's like? Yeah, I went and I trained for 10 years in a whole in a room, in a room of space and time and goku's like a hyper pilot time chamber and it was the biggest thing that everyone else had. I've seen so many reddits about it and stuff like that. Where's the other hyperbolic time chamber at and stuff like that. But here's the biggest thing that comes into it. The hyperbolic time chamber. We know is connected to the demon realm. We know it's connected to the Namekians. We know this Because the first time the hyperbola time chamber Gets introduced is after King Piccolo, because King Piccolo and Kami were the Only ones who knew where it was at and knew how to access it.
Speaker 2:They were the only ones that had that door that was there. They were the guardians of not just the earth but of this Particular chamber, of this pocket Universe. So we get introduced to another namekian, which is, which is the person who created the dragon balls that granola used, and this is the other thing that got me too. So you know that there's namekians on other planets. How has frieza never heard of namekians like what? That doesn't make any sense. He was so confused, like what dragon balls they can create. Any wish. This seems interesting. So you go to planet nanit, where the namekians at, but then we find out that namekians are in every other motherfucking planet and a good majority of them, not even just a small, a good majority of them, can make their own dragon balls.
Speaker 1:Now you said a whole bunch of shit and I want to talk about that, but for this moment, right here, once again going back to my theory In the moral arc when, okay, I honestly believe that once again it was just not within His jurisdiction, like there was one of those things where, okay, maybe there was no the Mexicans and the Galaxy that he took over. So it's more like he started moving in closer to the planet.
Speaker 2:But everybody else had been using Dragon Balls to do shit in these other planets for years.
Speaker 1:It's like you, only conquered planets and galaxies that didn't have Dragon Balls there for some reason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, somehow or another, you missed every single one. That, specifically, was that, until you overheard through the scouters that this is what happened. This is the thing that gets me. You also have you have representatives on all these other fucking planets, because the thing about it is this Planet Cereal had a Namekian. We learned this Planet Cereal had a Namekian, we learned this Planet Cereal had a Namekian. The inhabitants of Planet Cereal knew of the Dragon Balls, which means that the people who was there on Planet Cereal because they were there- as your.
Speaker 1:I wonder if the Namekians. It's kind of ironic because Namekians come from the Deep Realm so you're thinking like, yeah, but my whole, but they're not that bad, because it just happened to be the same.
Speaker 2:So you were born in your city, but you know you moved to a different place, Right.
Speaker 1:But my whole point is what if it was like one of those things where the making was like okay, let's just go to planets where we know that it's either peaceful or neutral? If we go to those four planets, things is going go to those four planet things, it's gonna get bad again. But then why would we want to go to Planet Cereal?
Speaker 2:Why would we want to go to Planet Cereal then? That still doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 1:I mean maybe because Planet Cereal was like a people planet before the Saiyans attacked, so like once again, the Saiyans were attacking a planet that they didn't even know that Dragon Balls.
Speaker 1:Well, keep in mind, none of the Saiyans knew about Dragon Balls either, so it's more lines of they were just attacking a planet that oh well, imagine if they destroyed planets, right, and it just happened to have Dragon Balls on it. I'm like, bro, like you could have had Dragon Ball wishes, but you just kept destroying or saving planets, but you just not even asked for it.
Speaker 2:You know wishes, but you just kept destroying or saving plans, but you just not even asked for that part. You know it is. There's a bunch of stuff, but it's okay again, toriyama was old and we kept pushing. He then wanted the dragon ball z series to end, the franchise, to end it.
Speaker 1:We kept pushing it, it's I feel like toriyama keeps things big, so it's more like oh you know, use your imagination and kind of fill in the blanks there.
Speaker 2:So I'm like that might create more plot holes than answers we have millions of people, each of them having their own different mindsets of why it should be this way. That's why there's so many fucking Dragon Ball fanfics.
Speaker 1:It's just too much however you pronounce it, you know how people are like in their old days. Like, oh well, it gotta make sense to me. Like, specifically, and like you don't even care if it makes sense or you can even enjoy it with other people, it's like, as long as it's appealed to me. That's the kind of problem with what they're doing. They're really thinking about, I really think about the community.
Speaker 2:So that's why I would say there's really no such thing as a toxic franchise you're not wrong, but yeah, this is a bunch of different things, but, um, so, yeah, we get these little moments. But then, uh, we get a moment for granola understanding his relation as well too, and he's like, I absolutely hate the sayings, but it's like, oh, you don't realize that a saying is the one that saved your life. And it's like, wait what, yeah, saying has destroyed your planet, but it was the saying that actually saved your life and it was none other than this guy's dad.
Speaker 1:And you're like a bunch of people saying hold on. Some people are saying crazy enough that the art would have been better if Bardock wasn't involved. Because you know Bardock's involvement, you know like in the special episode of the movie the non-canon and his involvement here and there is like getting messed up, like where did he lie in this time?
Speaker 2:so here's the thing about it too this is the first chance that we're actually shown that bardock is not just some raging idiot. Let's be honest on today. In all of the previous movies, something like bardock, father of goku, and even like the prequel for dragon ball z when we get a a little snippet of that happening when it was, it wasn't not. Yeah, it was like Dragon Ball Z when we get a snippet of that happening in that series and it's like I don't know but, um, we want to gain the opportunity of seeing Barda, but then every single time he's just a war crazed, idiot type thing and it's like it was. But then we hear from vegeta. I think, like in the moral arc is when we hear from vegeta for the first time saying, oh yeah, your father was a scientist type thing and it was like nigga. In what way? Like I have seen bard, our father of goku, I have seen them little snippets there's. There's nothing that points out this nigga was a scientist, the fuck you mean. And then we get here in the granola arc and we have a completely different bar, just like we had a now have a completely different broly. So it's like completely retconned. And the other thing was like, no, you only saw him when he had to just work. But you was like, okay, we saw this dude on cereal when he was, uh, saving granola his mom. He was a lot more calm and a lot more understanding than the other shit that we've seen, the other shit. He just went raging and started killing people left and right. This one, we have a bardock with a heart, but he's like you have a kid. Oh, you remind me of my two boys. Oh no, because I've seen a kid even though I've my two boys. Oh no, because I've seen a kid, even though I've decimated tons of other planets and probably seen those kids dying. That did nothing for me. But right now, you made me think about my little boy and my other boy out doing god knows what, and I'm just like wait the fuck, wait. So it was stuff that didn't make sense into that. But that moment of still understanding that they kept a scouter, his scouter, where he wound up talking a whole little message, and he's like, just in case, just in case, if my son ever sees this, and I'm like the fuck and look, this is one thing about it. I'm gonna be honest, this is gonna be a little bit personal, but it's also kind of funny in this shit too.
Speaker 2:Okay, I grew up without my dad. All right. I grew up without my biological dad, my dad. Unfortunately, he was out of my life before I even turned one. I think I was like three months old when he was gone. Okay, so, understanding this, I was like Goku. I don't really have much memory of my dad. I finally got a chance to meet my dad at an older age. I'm in my 30s right now, so I was like late 20s. I got a chance to meet my dad and then get a chance to talk to him. He gave me a little heartfelt message of understanding why it was he wasn't there, but that he still loved me, and stuff like that. That does not give you no fucking power boost, it's not a no see.
Speaker 1:I was going in that direction as soon as you were going to say that, because, like, because, think about it, I was thinking with Goku it's like okay, well, this is neat, but I don't really know what to do, like that. So it's not all that sentimental to me. And then I swear to God, I thought you were going to go in the direction to where kind of like Austin Powers, to where Dr Evil meets Scott for the first time. And then Scott was like you've been gone my entire life and you expect a relationship out of me.
Speaker 2:I hate you, I like that part, the stuff that just didn't make sense. I was like, okay, that's not really, that's not gonna make, you're not gonna get no power boost from this shit. Like, oh my goodness, I've heard a message from my father. I now fully understand what it means to be a Saiyan. Nick. What, wait a second? But you know what? I'm not going to just key roast. No one complaining onto that, I'm happy with that. But you know what? I'm not going to? Just key roast, no one complaining onto that.
Speaker 2:I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1:I'm happy with this Just standing there looking at him all sideways like motherfucker, you've been friends with Prince of All Saints for how long? And you're just now saying, oh, I know what it's like to be a full-blooded saint. Now I'm like.
Speaker 2:Here's the difference You're my buddy, but you're not my daddy. Don't you try that.
Speaker 1:I've been telling you that. Where's your saying pride Kakarot?
Speaker 2:I didn't know my dad, so I don't have a saying pride. I now know my dad From a message. What the fuck, dude, you have died. You have come back to life. You spoke with Fortune telebaba multiple times, you tell me. Not one of those times you was like can I just talk to my dad? You know just okay, hold on.
Speaker 1:First of all, let me, before I get you reminded me of, with black freezer, how he said oh uh, I trained in a hyper time chamber, time in another universe. Oh well, you would think that you're as strong as any universe in this universe. But then I'm thinking hold on. Dragon Ball Kakumei.
Speaker 2:Dragon Ball Kakumei is a whole different thing. Don't do that.
Speaker 1:No, but it felt like it set it up for that, Because imagine what if Frieza went to another universe and could have become a God of Destruction there.
Speaker 2:You're making me out of the point.
Speaker 1:So I'm like hold on. I know Dragon Ball Kakumei is like fan-made by the way, it's a very good fan-made manga art, by the way, but listen Like he could have All he had to've there's another universe. Be like hey man, let me just go fuck shit up. I'm like, alright, I'm not a new guy, let me go back to universe 7 and really fuck shit up.
Speaker 2:It's true. It's true there's a couple things that easily could have led into it. So, yeah, I got you, but yeah, no, it was like it's just stuff that just didn't fully make sense. But at least it gave us an opportunity of seeing. We finally got to see Bardock as a scientist instead of just this war-crazed idiot that we've grown to know this whole time. And when you say idiot, I mean he still. Still, he was smart enough to be able to be like look, free's about to kill us and no one else will listen.
Speaker 2:It was a bad but, uh hold on, hold on wait wait, wait.
Speaker 1:For the most part, I like that Goku needed this. You know like something to like remind him of Goku also still like how, uh, gna was including the Broly movie, but you know like kind of have like some sort of connection in a way towards, um, his parents. And, by the way, I like how, in the granola arc um gas when he was doing the talk.
Speaker 1:No, I like how he did a callback, uh, raditz, where I'm like you remind me of my own, uh, my relationship to my own mother and I'm like you don't really want to do that, like you don't want to write your book, you know what I mean. I'm like okay, okay. So I kind of like that Granola, the Granola arc, kind of like gave a little callback to the whole thing with, like staying on behavior before the events of Dragon Ball kicked off and it's like, yeah, like I mean no, son Goku, but it's more like you need to. You need Goku to embrace the attack you know what I mean that part but outside of that, to embrace the samurai in them. You know what I mean that part.
Speaker 2:But outside of that, outside of that, there's really not much else here. I mean, Black Freezer broke the internet. We was like, oh my goodness he's black now.
Speaker 1:It was funny because I remember the day when I was reading a manga. It was like brand new and I was reading that one chapter and I was reading up that last that one chapter and I was in here like, and then sallows uh, got to the chat like hold up, oh no bro.
Speaker 2:He was like yo because we was about to read it anyway, but sure enough, you sent the message. I was like the fucking taco.
Speaker 1:That's all I had to say. Y'all need to read this.
Speaker 2:Bro, it was too much. It was too much and it was like huh, he said he hated, he hated us so much it became the same thing that he always hated, for sure enough enough. Reason will never escape them racial allegations. You don't care, he will say it anyway, but it's one of those ones. Like dang toriyama, what is it about you making black the villain? Like why does it have to be black to be the villain? Like I just don't understand goku.
Speaker 1:Black like the hold on I can't wait, like if they do it that would be great, but if they don't, oh well. But can you imagine if Super Saiyan 4 becomes canon in the main continuity and freezes like even more months?
Speaker 2:I'm like you wanted to talk that part, nah, I wouldn't even happen to see it. I mean, that's happened it's a lot it's still. It's a lot, though. What is happening right now? What is Toriyama doing? What are we doing right?
Speaker 2:now oh god, alright, but no, I don't have nothing else. I know we have like one more. What is happening right now? What is toriyama doing? What are we doing right now? Oh god, all right, but no, I don't have nothing else. I know we have like one more. We're gonna cover real quick, um, so I'm just letting you know right now, I don't have anything else. We're gonna know the art. The fight is pretty cool. I like that. He had a special eye, but you know, he did the same thing that we've all wanted to do. He had his own little navigational friend that he was like shut the fuck up, hey, listen, yes, anyway, that's all. I don't have nothing. I'm ready to go ahead and move forward, unless you have something, unless you bring something else back to my memory, there's nothing else.
Speaker 1:I might remember later, but let's go ahead and pull it to the superhero. So, welcome to our training with bro. And, by the way, fierce mass and the party line, the Red Army, returns to develop new engines, uh, our gamma one, gamma max, to attack cap support and the fighter. When magenta and the red recruits dr heto, the grandson of dr jerome, uh, dr heto is like a superhero fanboy and magenta had to paint it to where. Like, oh well, you know, I know you trying to get a job at CapSupport, but did you know that they're actually the bad guys? I'm like, wait what? I'm like? Yeah, like, don't go with them, come with us. Like we're gonna develop some androids to defeat those, um, bad guys that's over at CapSupport, depending on their names and all that shit. And yeah, we're gonna fuck them up. And yeah, like, so the belt for you and George and his mom was good. So that was it. And while this was happening, piccolo was bonding with Pan, you know, training and whatnot, kind of like called back to Piccolo training Gohan and, speaking of which, he's trying to coax Gohan into focusing on the training, and I'm going to harp on that in just a moment.
Speaker 1:In the manga, goh-ten and Chugs are more involved, but not by much. Piccolo infiltrated the Red Ribbon Army as Soldier 94, which is a callback to the original Dragon Ball manga chapter 94, when Kid Goku decimated the Red Ribbon Army, pulling up and busting up all their shit. So I like how they had that number 94 to say like, hey, you remember when Goku beat up the Red Ribbon Army kid? Yeah, anyways, piccolo learns about Magista's plan to kidnap Pan as a means to lure out Gohan into fighting the androids and have Pan play along with the plan. So he goes and then, after that, piccolo goes to Dende to have his full potential unlocked, called back to his super kami guru Krononamics Saga giving Krillin and Gohan, uh, unlocking their potential. So instead, you know, like, get the dragon involved to grant the witch unlock my full potential. And then the music got all superhero as he flew off to help out Gohan and whatnot. So Gohan and Piccolo, they pan from the Red Ribbon Army and they allot new transformations While fighting the androids, beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I would say superhero Is the one where I have the least to say. But it's not bad, it's just. You know, I felt like it was more straightforward. Things were like a whole lot of speculation that came from this arc, but like more speculation towards the whole arc, because they left like a whole bunch of things open to where I'm like, okay, where y'all going with this fucking story? You?
Speaker 1:know what I mean so um go guys. What were your thoughts on the Super Hero?
Speaker 2:Okay, uh. So first thing, first thing into this like there's a vast difference between the manga and the movie I was about to say manga and anime, I didn't even correct myself the manga and the movie, just like what happened with Dragon Ball Super Bro Well, no one, that actually got fully adapted exactly as is and didn't really change nothing. Um, but like battle of gods, resurrection f and dragon ball superhero, each are completely different in the movie than they are in monk, so just understand that there is a difference.
Speaker 2:like, for example, it just starts off with old buddy is in prison and he's just like, oh, he's very much like his, uh, like his grandfather type thing. He's super smart, but you know, he's also often he's also unhinged and stuff a little bit. They. But they made him seem like he was just kind of crazy but wanted to be a hero, versus in the manga, the reason he is the way he is is all because of go tinder trunks. I know you said it's like there's a little bit involved. No, it's really their fault. That superhero happened Because they wound up busting up His shop, because they so badly wanted to be superheroes. We want to be superheroes. We have the whole special outfit, ooh yeah, type thing, and they're keeping it a secret from their parents Because the parents are like I don't want y'all to get in trouble, like it's not even the fact that I don't want y'all to get hurt. No, y'all stronger than fucking everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it felt filler, but it's one of those ones that just made it a little bit different, understanding that this is really their, their fucking fault, that all this shit's happening. Just real talk. But it winds up coming to the point like they busted up dude's shop and he had reanimated corpses working, which I will say it was morally degradable. That is absolutely correct, but this is not their job to handle that.
Speaker 2:They should have let krillin do his job, because krillin was already doing his fucking job man yeah, like krillin, he's a police officer and I know we don't really fuck the police like that Niggas with attitude NWA all day, anyway. But for real, in this particular case, dude was doing his job. Just let him do what he was supposed to do. But because they had to get involved, they wound up sparking dr hito to be like, oh yeah, they're superheroes, I want to make superheroes just like that, yeah. And then all this happened. And then we got celmax. Um, I will say um.
Speaker 2:Gohan keeps making the same mistake. This has been through this shit too many fucking times, but it is part of the superhero arc of goku. Fight of goku versus gohan, the fight on um beer's planet. Technically, that's part of that's part of the superhero um arc, so we can talk about that too. What gohan finally fucking learned from his mistake. So, literally, after he beat Cell, he got fucking lazy and then he had to retrain himself because he was getting his ass handed to him, because he was got fucking lazy.
Speaker 1:Now, don't get me wrong. I like the idea of Gohan trying to get back into his training, you know, unlock, his beat Gohan form and all that, even though I got mixed feelings about his design and whatnot. Like I mean not that bad, it just feels like it's in a 3D form to where it's like okay, it's just basically Super Saiyan 3D, but longer and grayish, and I'm like I mean it was kind of dumb.
Speaker 2:I'll put it this way, I'll put it in this aspect, as far as their forms after Super Saiyan, after Super Saiyan because we've seen this also with Trunks as well too, I think after the Super Saiyan 2, after this point, or even Super saiyan three, when you start, variety is where it becomes more in tune with their personality. Because trunks is super sick, because his super saiyan bluish form, whereas like his ascended form that he kind of had during the um, during the goku black arc and stuff, his was his own version. You know he didn't turn like a straight up Super Saiyan God, it was like a God ki infusion of himself per se versus. And then Gohan never achieved any form of divinity power whatsoever. It just winds up being a more unlocked version of his own potential. As his potential grows, he gets stronger type of thing. Because they did explain that in the movie with Piccolo, piccolo wound up saying that oh yeah, I have more potential unlocked now, as I've now trained more, I've gotten smarter, I've gotten more adept.
Speaker 1:Type thing. Hold on. Speaking of which with Piccolo, I like how they make it to where. Okay, keep in mind that, oh my god, piccolo, I see, when you think about it, demon King Piccolo is just the evil version of the nameless Namekian that came to Earth to be the guardian of Earth, and Kami, the good version of him, was up on Kami Tower. Okay, stay with me. So Demon King Piccolo fights Goku, gets defeated, reincarnates himself in Piccolo Jr, who's been following throughout most of Dragon Ball Z and all that. And then Piccolo and Kami fuse together in the Cell School. Piccolo and Kami Fused together in the cell school.
Speaker 1:So I want to say that they're now the nameless Namekian, but for convenience sake, let's just call him Piccolo. And Then, not only did Dragon Ball Diamond, we're buying an old one Namekian. So he really could Demon King piccolo, but it's like, oh no, that's not accurate, I'm not that person anymore. But also you now have like this form. That's where, oh well, he can like, transform even further. I'm like, I like piccolo, um, I'm like yo timeline on him and being diffused and then reusing and carnage and all that. And I'm not even getting to. But hold on, I want to say he's still the guardian of Earth in a way, because it just seemed like the way he was like watching upon his full potential lock, and I think they said that oh, you know, you're still the guardian of Earth, like you're a dragon ball, so you're getting with, don't use them. So I'm like it's kind of messy trying to keep up with to where I'm like do we even call him Piccolo?
Speaker 2:Hold on. This is who he identifies as. Don't do that. He identifies himself as piccolo. That's what he says he is. He says he's nothing else. He's not demon king piccolo. He's not king piccolo. He has said this canonically. I'm not that because, because even when the um, when the, the two android dudes had showed up, I can't remember the name the red and blue one. I can't remember up.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the name. The red and blue one, I can't remember. Okay, yeah, gamma, thank you. Yeah, when gamma 2 showed up, even he was just like oh yes, it's demon king piccolo.
Speaker 1:He says that's not my name, it's just you know it's like kind of hard to say gamma wanted to keep thinking of gamma uh, fair, fair, I like Omega more.
Speaker 2:But yes, definitely. But yes, no, it's not too much to keep a comment Like if you're really trying to put that much effort into it, keep in mind onto this, kami was is part of King Piccolo. So yeah, if you're saying like, if you're trying to keep track of the diffusion and defusion, but then you forgot one other thing when he fused with Kami, he had already fused with Nail, so technically he had already became stronger per se that way. So that's a whole other thing in itself, but that's entirely too much to go into, that's too complicated.
Speaker 1:You know what, if Piccolo was involved in the Granola arc and he used Monato, the guy that was on Planet Syria, I'm like god damn it. How much stronger are you now? Are you just collecting? It's a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a lot, but I mean, keep in mind he still would never do what happened in Universe 6. Those two Namekians fused with all the Namekians in the entire universe, yeah, and still got their asses handed to them. Ha ha.
Speaker 1:You could do that. You're dealing with motherfuckers. They hate you From other universes and all that other shit.
Speaker 2:True, but no, I was saying as far as about Gohan, he got lazy, so he got lazy after fighting Cell and so towards the beginning of the boot soccer, he was getting his ass handed to him. They were even very honest about the fact that these dudes that they were fighting against, like Goku and Vegeta, was very honest about the fact that these dudes they were fighting against, gohan should not have needed help. He was like these people are probably as strong as frieza, and that's we, and that's that's the funny thing to say that obviously now it's whole different. But during the boost, but during the boost song, that's the whole thing of like. He's like, oh, these people were just like when they were comparing cyberman oh, each of these cybermen are strongest raddus, if you can't even beat these side men, you definitely can't beat vegeta or napa. And then now frieza is now that power scaling. It's like, oh, these people are just as powerful as frieza. Oh, that's, that's wicked shit. There ain't nothing. I know I said this in the last. I think it was.
Speaker 1:In the Dragon Ball Super Broly Part, or maybe like Early on, maybe in GT, I don't know. But point being is that I remember when I was Saying how Y'all need to make up y'all fucking minds Between Goku and Gohan, because it's just really funny how the guy that loves fighting y'all trying to tell him hey, man, you need to spend more time with your family and get a job, but meanwhile you have gohan who, uh, spend time with his family, you know when he can, and he trying to hold down a job and whatnot. And then the fans are like you need to be out on the field, like you need to stop pulling around and stop getting lazy and start training more, and all that. Now, on the one hand, I do understand that with gohan and k's, goku um goes away permanently. You know, like how they try to set that up In Dragon Ball Z and GT and what not, how one day Goku gonna be gone for good and they're gonna need somebody To champion for Earth Um, you know, and it's one thing to like make sure that Gohan Doesn't get sloppy, but at the same time, I just think it's ironic how, like the guy that was raised to like fighting I mean, he wasn't like raised to fight, like fighting, but it's more like he likes fighting on his own. And all the adults around him was like, yeah, you know what, goku, you just don't stick with your strengths, you know, just win those tournaments. You don't really have to get a formal education.
Speaker 1:But then gohan comes around. It's like, yeah, we don't really have to get a formal education. But then Gohan comes around, it's like, yeah, we don't want you to be like your father, you need a formal education, you need to think about your family and whatnot. And then he grows up. I'm like, all right, I got my job, I got a wife, I got a kid, like I'm gonna live this normal life and I'm just not gonna worry too much about any of those uh aliens trying to come around. And then I'm like, oh shit to worry too much about any of those aliens trying to come around. And then I'm like, oh shit, alien invasion. Gohan, are you ready for fighting? I'm like, wait, hold on.
Speaker 1:Like you told me, I need to focus. No, you need to be on the field. Motherfucker, I just don't understand how y'all gonna have the past. Y'all want a pass to fight, but you want the guys both fighting to chill out so, look, I will balance this.
Speaker 2:I will say this in one little aspect. Okay, the person who really wanted gohan to chill out was chichi, that's primarily. Um toriyama did actually kind of want to have gohan be able to fight more, but he had he kind of put in gohan.
Speaker 1:Gohan be able to fight more. But he had he planned up putting Gohan as a side character.
Speaker 2:But then I will put it this aspect with one thing that Gohan himself said in the tournament um, after, uh, resurrection F. He said it himself and that's one of the reasons why it's like okay, now we can kind of like call out this character again. He was frustrated after resurrection f because he said he realized that, yeah, he was focusing on his studies but he allowed himself to get so weak that he could not protect his family. That is one thing that I will say as a father and as a husband myself is the fact that I get that, yeah, you need to be able to spend time with your family, you need to be able to do things, but there does have to be a balance to where you still have to be able to be that protector. Like.
Speaker 2:The thing about is this I I have my kids are old enough now to the point that my kids are dealing with bullies. If I need to go and fuck up a bully's dad, I need to be strong enough to do that shit because my kid gets bullied. I try to help stand up for my kid and then I get my ass beat. The whole family is considered weak. That's just what it is. There's nothing you can do about that now.
Speaker 1:You have now solidified this to where, like yeah, you need to be able to protect your family. But like sometimes I get worried that some folks just kind of put a lot of expectations on these characters, you know, like they're not appealing to all human sides, who are like, hey, man, sometimes it's just hard, like you can't just keep it all balanced. I get it. You know what.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, was that what you were about to say? That Goku's not human?
Speaker 1:No, you have a good point, but I'm like you know what. There's a whole lot to unpack there, to a point where I'm like you know what. I just don't want to even go there, because if we go there we're going to have to put Superman on the same scale.
Speaker 2:No, we don't. I got you, I understand, but yeah, so no, but yeah, like, look in just that little aspect let me just finish up real quick while I'm saying it. But yeah, he got lazy at the cell arc and got this behind-handed to him in the blue, and they were very honest about the fact that the people that they were going up, the monsters that they fought up against, was nothing, was like literally only as powerful as frieza. So it's like you've literally beat someone who's scaled significantly above this person, but your power dropped. It's like that moment of when you play a video game and you get this final boss character and you're like you beat the final boss. Then you finally get them as a character and they're like weak as shit and because you have to re-level them up, type of thing.
Speaker 2:That's pretty much what happened. Go home, he got weak as shit and he had to be re-leveled up, and so that's where it became like a big issue for it. It was like, damn bro, it's not just one thing, you got lazy, but it's like your strength level heavily decreased and then the same thing happened again. So we had this happen with the Bull Saga, then we had this happen with Resurrection F. Then again we had it happen in the Tournament of Power and it was like In the Tournament of Power.
Speaker 1:I like how in the manga they were saying, okay, hold on, hold on. I did a little bit more in the manga where he was the one who knocked out the airplane on the Tournament of Power.
Speaker 2:I'm like, okay, well you know, but even he had to admit the fact that he was not pushing himself as much. And I'm going to go based on the manga in this aspect. I'm going to say that because there is a vast difference between the manga and the anime. In the tournament of power, there was like a lot of things changed. We already talked about that previously and one of those ones is Gohan admitting the fact that he was like nowhere near strong. Considering the fact that he was like nowhere near strong, considering the fact that Master Ultra Instinct was actually technically the anime came before the manga, but still technically it wasn't being that Master Ultra Instinct Goku sign. And Master Ultra Instinct Goku is technically nerfed in the anime compared to the manga, which is hilarious. But Gohan, his power scaling is about the same. So that lets you know how huge of a difference it technically would be in a story wise.
Speaker 2:Um, he admitted himself that he still had a chance to push himself further, but he didn't, because he even admitted when he saw krillin he was like, oh, krillin's not going to be helpful, or nothing like that. And he sees krillin holding his own against super saiyan blue goku. Yes, goku still held back a little bit, but at the same time, gohan was like he literally did not laze himself off. He's a father, he has a daughter, he has a wife, he has a full-time job and still he's able to keep his strength up. He's still able to keep his skills up. He's significantly older than me and is still able to do this. What the fuck have I been doing?
Speaker 1:you know yeah, see, that's what I was saying with goku and superman, how like I mean I get it, but at the same time I guess you could say I just don't like the idea of how we as human beings are treating each other. Like we're inhuman, like you know what I mean, where it's like we're supposed to be able to do it all with no sweat. I'm like, hey man, sometimes it get hard to balance everything out. So I'm like I'm not saying that, lay a ball here or whatnot. I'm just saying like, have some empathy and be like, hey man, I that, uh, a lot of this shit takes like a whole lot of effort and whatnot. That makes sense. But at the same time I'm like, can you at least approach me like a fellow human being? You know what I'm saying. Like yes, yes, that's what I'm saying, that's the main thing. Like, uh, they kind of expect go Goku to be able to fight off whoever comes their way. And I'm like, hey man, I got life outside, all this shit too.
Speaker 2:That's all I'm saying, I mean, goku's got his ass handed to him several times before, but still, no, let's understand him. Like you have to make those sacrifices, there's going to be times into it and it's like, yeah, I fully understand Gohan fully devoted himself into his work. Fully understand Gohan fully devoted himself into his work. He fully devoted himself into his family, which unfortunately meant that he wound up losing those opportunities of being able to keep himself, to be that protector. Like I have to have those moments where I love hanging out with my family, but I have to tell them all the time, I have to tell even my kids all the time hey, I would love to hang out with you, daddy's got to work and I have to tell them that.
Speaker 1:Yo, that's why I would say my relationship with my biological father me was different to where. I'm like, but most part, yeah, I knew he was working so I didn't see him a whole lot. I'm like, hey, man, I understood, like you guys do what you guys do, so I'm not mad that you're not around a whole lot. In fact, I do hang out with him on the weekends when I can, so I'm like I do spend some time with him. I'm like I don't feel like abandoned by him, but like, hey man, he's just not gonna be as available as I like and I'm cool with it. I understand why exactly so that.
Speaker 2:But so there's one of those things like you have to have that moment of balance. It's like, hey, you know, I got to do this. So when your kid doesn't understand, like you said, you understood. I got several other friends who same thing for their dads. They dads like, and the dude who's his dad worked at an oil rig. I mean he didn't see six months that his dad was not, was gone, and then his dad will come back for like two, maybe three months and then be gone for another six months and it's like that's just kind of how it works. Military Same thing. You know your family could be going for a long time. If they're on them and they're being shipped out, you don't know how long they're going to be there and you're not going to be able to visit them for a very, very fucking long time. So it's like those jobs are important but it does it takes away from family.
Speaker 1:But you understand the importance of it I have a little bit more sympathy for military people like especially uh folks where, like you know how they're married uh well, whoever they're married to is not active military. They're not at all.
Speaker 1:But all I'm saying is I hear some of those stories where on the one hand, you have those positive stories where, okay, daddy's coming home from the military and wife and kid so happy to see you see the tiktoks and whatnot, and that's all great and dandy. But sometimes you get some really bad stories about how, like, um, they'll come back home and then next you know they're there, was like some side dude in the mix. They're like how can you do this to me? I'm like you weren't there enough for me. I'm like, pick out the fucking Like I had to ship out and all this shit. I'm doing this for you. I'm like that's not good enough for you. I'm like, bro, I'm so glad she understands that sometimes Goku had to do what he had to do, you know, when he had to sacrifice his life twice for the planet, and people are like, oh well, he wasn't there for the family, how can he when he's dead?
Speaker 2:She was mad about that shit. You know that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean, at least she was Dave's fave. Well, you know, I don't know about remarrying.
Speaker 2:He'll be back.
Speaker 1:You know there's Dragon Ball. He'll be back.
Speaker 2:I mean she's got, she's plenty taken care of. She's friends with Ball, I mean.
Speaker 1:Ox King. So I'm like, yeah, she's great. So the Oks.
Speaker 2:King is now broke. He's not as rich, no more. Yeah, he ain't. No one here is rich, no more. He was very clear about this. He was like I cannot support. It was back in Blue Saga. He was very honest about that. He couldn't support that. He was like you can't support Chi-Chi's lifestyle along with Gohan, because, remember, gohan was in the top private schools. He wasn't in private school and he was homeschooled. Like he was homeschooled first and then went to private school. He went to the top private school, the school that Videl went to. Remember all of those kids there were rich as fuck. That's why they picked on him as far as being a farm boy type thing. They're like you're a farm boy but he's like I can afford the tuition. Like technically I'm rich type thing and technically not as much. King was very clear about the fact that he could not fully afford this shit all the time and that's the reason why there's like those little filler episodes. But those filler episodes are important.
Speaker 1:You better line up for those World Martial Arts Tournament and win some money.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's the reason why they had to keep doing the World Martial Arts Tournament and they wanted them to keep going to BOMA. So it's been a lot of things that people say yeah, these niggas was rich, but Alice King was like my pockets ain't light.
Speaker 1:They're only rich by proxy of having rich connections, except BOMA, yeah, yeah, yeah, beaumont, she just come from money and whatnot.
Speaker 2:She's fucking Bruce Wayne rich. She's fucking Iron man rich, oh man.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine later on in the franchise, capsule Corp is like you know what. Let's go ahead and have these other planes, make space colonies on these other planes. We claim this plant in the name of Earth, but mostly capsule cores.
Speaker 2:They already did. That's one of those things I know I forgot. Thank you for reminding me. That's one of those things. I'm going to go right back to the granola arc. I'm going to go right back. It's a little hidden Easter egg into it. If you pay attention to those buildings that they had on the planet, they look very similar to the designs that the briefs made, because they are. They already have started making shit on other briefs. I don't look good.
Speaker 1:I don't like hold the hell up.
Speaker 2:I mean keep in mind, this Tights has connections to the Galactic Patrol. You think, more than likely they think that she just has connections because she looks pretty. I'm just saying, but yeah, no, no. So it's like, yeah, the Capsule Corp is alright, they own a lot of shit, they own. I'm just saying, but yeah, no, no. So it's like, yeah, no, yeah, the capsule corpus art, they own a lot of shit, they own a lot. How do you think Bruce made a spaceship?
Speaker 2:where, like, they're gonna have a planet reefer how do you think he was able to make? How do you think he already had a spaceship? Keep in mind, remember, he didn't build that spaceship for Goku. He made modifications so that way Goku could train in it. He already had a spaceship. He already had two spaceships, remember, because Bulma went in with the spaceship with Krillin and Gohan in order to go to planet Namek and they were able to drive there. They were able to fly there. They were able to sustain gravity. They were able to sustain oxygen levels for them. They were able to fly there. They were able to sustain gravity. They were able to sustain oxygen levels for them. They were able to have enough food. You think they just all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:I need more stories where they're traveling to different planets. And then it'd be like that Kim Possible type shit, and it was like hey man, thank you for letting us stay here on your planet. Hey man, anything for Bul. Us stay here on your planet. Hey man, anything for Bulma and the Brie family that'd be great.
Speaker 2:Fuck, yeah, bro, like some real shit. But no, so, yeah, gohan, he's had those moments of being lazy. He finally, after superhero, he finally stopped. After Cell Max, he maintained that shit, he was ready. So when they snuck up on his ass, he was instant like boom, beast mode. He's like I'm back beast mode again. Who am I to fuck up? Who am I to fuck up? I'm ready right now. And it was like oh, you didn't let yourself get lazy again. He said nah, I got tired of getting my ass home to me too many times for being lazy.
Speaker 1:I need to create a work-life balance to where I can still work and be with my family, but I still need to be strong enough to protect my family. And I also throw in. I love that these main players like Goku, vegeta, gohan, piccolo, broly, like they're all trying to ascend to new levels, but in different ways, where it's not like it's um, they're pretty much trying to keep up with each other, but more like let me raise my own strength and my own style. That's why I say that, okay, goku can have ultra instinct, vegeta have ultra ego, piccolo has his orange form, gohan has his ultimate slash beast form.
Speaker 1:I would say Goten and Trunks they should probably focus more on Tag team fighting, splash fusion. I mean they can have things like, say, for instance, with Trunks he can have the sword techniques, like we mentioned before, where he can specialize in Weapon type Key attacks. But with goten I'm like he don't stand out very much as a fighter. So I'm kind of hoping it's like the opposite of trunks to where he's kind of like you get your messy with the spirit gun, but you know, uh, I would say, oh well, you know, you know, copyright won't pause, super Saiyan, god. Goku did it already. I think they'll let it slide. I've seen a lot of people do that same thing. It's like they don't exactly do like a finger gun, but it's like it's the same thing. So it's more like uh, goten can be like a shark.
Speaker 2:Freeza does, does it right yeah, that's what I'm saying, like granola too.
Speaker 1:So I'm like just yeah, oh you know what granola coming back hanging out with the z fighter, then maybe goten might learn something from him he knows about to die.
Speaker 2:He ain't got time for that. Yeah, hold on that cockamay um did. That's one of the things I love about Kakumei. Gohan goes to Universe. Um, what was it Not 10. 9? The one in Jiren? He joins the Freedom Fighters and learns from them. I love that, um. Or even the one where Wiz winds up actually training Goten and Trunks. But I will say one of the writing things Fusion was the best and worst thing to happen to go to the trunks because future trunks doesn't have that, because future trunks doesn't have this.
Speaker 1:Reliance on fusion is why he's able to make himself more powerful that's funny too, because like I remember Team Force or bridge, where he was also being sarcastic about oh well, we don't have Dragon Balls anymore and I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I was like I lived my whole life without Dragon Balls, you know yeah exactly, but no, for reals.
Speaker 2:It's one of the best and worst things that happen. So, like how you said, they should focus more on tag, team and fusion battles.
Speaker 1:Oh, what if they're separated? One more thing.
Speaker 2:They're weak.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm saying Like, okay, trunks can have like those specialized sword techniques and Go-Kin can be like a sharpshooter or something like that, but I don't know. Just something, you know, help them stand out. Meanwhile, the last one I would say with broly, you already know he needs to be the first one to hit super saiyan 4 because between that wrath form and the movie and whatnot, the way they kind of describe the physiology and everything, I'm like bro, it kind of makes sense for him to be like, okay, let me figure this shit out a little bit more. And then next thing, you know, uh, goku and vegeta, I'm visiting him again and I'm like hey guys, I learned a new uh transformation.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh yeah, sure. Then like, okay, you have to give me some space because it gets kind of wild, but hear me out. So this is a super saiyan, right. And then it's super saiyan 2, right, and goku, you should be familiar with this. This is Super Saiyan 3. I'm like, okay, okay, now hold on, this is not the new transformation, this is. And then you just like golden ape. In the next thing, you know, you just condense back down to like, okay, super Saiyan 4. I'm like what the fuck? Like, what's your?
Speaker 1:hold on like there's a level higher than super saiyan 3.
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, apparently look, the craziest thing about it is the fact that, like we love his whiz, this little moment in xenoverse where he's super saiyan 4, he's like I like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is pure primal, this is your pure energy oh no, I'm waiting for we to be like um garnet when you know, Garnet from Steven Universe, where Steven and Connie Fused to Stevonnie for the first time. Then Garnet was like. Her smile was like Just this Long smile.
Speaker 2:That's the. That's the smile of like your kid finally had sex for the first time. Moving on, Anyway, that's the smile of like your kid finally had sex for the first time. Moving on, anyway. But I agree with you on everything except for Super Saiyan 3.
Speaker 1:I do feel like Super Saiyan 3 is still a waste, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like Super Saiyan 3 is still like probably the biggest waste. So I wouldn't even want Broly to do Super Saiyan 3 at all. Leave that for like Goku has achieved it. Goku has admitted multiple times the weakness of it and it's one of those ones that have go like, not for goku, but even for like gotenks.
Speaker 2:Gotenks has an abundance of ki. That's one thing they have. Actually, it is canonically proven. Goten has an abundance of ki because only gotenks is able.
Speaker 2:Because goku going super saiyan 3, it drains him significantly. Even when he wasn't dead like just in general when he was alive, going Super Saiyan 3 drained him significantly. When he finally was able to beat Kid Buu, it was not in Super Saiyan 3. He was holding his own by continuous outbursts of power. But that's not how he was able to defeat Kid Buu. He had to go back to space Super Saiyan. Well, super Saiyan 2, then base super saiyan, but super saiyan 3 is such a huge amount of key waster.
Speaker 2:But gotenks, keep in mind, onto this fusion the more power that you use in fusion it's been proven in this the more power you use in fusion, the short, the shorter your fusion lasts. We've seen this happen with vegeto during the um goku black arc and zamasu arc. We've seen it happen with them where they went super saiyan blue and because they did that it sped up the time significantly and ended the fusion. And we've seen it also happen in the broly as well too. They went super saiyan blue. They were able to defeat broly, but they did not last in super saiyan that long. That was actually canonically proven to them Because they went Super Saiyan 3, I mean not Super Saiyan 3, super Saiyan Blue. It sped up their time significantly and they wound up defusing faster.
Speaker 2:Gotenks can go Super Saiyan 3 and that's their max power right now can go Super Saiyan 3 and still maintain fusion for a full 30 minutes. That itself speaks to how much ki is between Trunks and Goten and how fused together, how much ki Gotenks actually has. And that should be like a good writing potential for me. That's one of those things for me that I'm like it's been hinted at, like a little bit in the writing. Even if it wasn't intentional, it's there, so it's like make that a thing. That's what I want to see like. Show the kid they have this abundance.
Speaker 1:I mean, keep in mind that they say that it's kind of like with Mark. Well, I don't know, like, hear me out. I want to say that maybe same way with Mark from Invin invincible, how, like, if you're half saying that you might have more potential than a full-blooded saying, because you know, uh, full blood saying, I'm kind of convinced where they don't have a whole lot of emotional range, otherwise a whole lot of them didn't even know about super saiyan until you know they get that explanation with uh, these uh s cells and on this tingle in the back. And I'm like I hated that, by the way, because can you imagine if goku and vegeta knew about that trick, um, during the freeza saga? Like that was just cheating the whole thing.
Speaker 2:I agree. I read it. On this, I agree with what somebody was saying to this that Tingle trick would not work for Universe 7. Because Universe 7 Saiyans are vastly different Than Universe 6 Saiyans.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So we'll put it in that aspect. The Tingle works for Universe 6. Because that's how those Saiyans are. If you keep in mind those Saiyans are, If you keep in mind those Saiyans are bred differently because the Saiyans of Universe 6 took over Planet Vegeta. Remember, Planet Vegeta was not their birth planet. That was not where the Saiyans originated. Because they're warrior races, they go and inhabit other planets too. They killed the inhabitants of that planet and then took it over.
Speaker 1:You know what? What I honestly think that Toyotaro could make a. I mean, they kind of do it already with Dragon Ball Super Super Hero, but I kind of need more. What if scenarios coming out to our life? What if, um, the Saiyans were, you know?
Speaker 2:we'll see. But one thing is going back to super, because I realize we keep, we're talking about the universe, but yeah, we're talking about all these wonderful theories.
Speaker 2:But, going back to super, I like orange piccolo. Okay, I do, I know you. So I know you do too. So it's like look, orange piccolo is a significance because it's symbol. It's a great symbol for him. It's like look, orange Piccolo is a significance because it's a great symbol for him. It's this moment of. Piccolo has constantly absorbed Namekian and has made himself stronger. As Shinran even said, you have a significant potential that's there for you that you had never unlocked. You've been constantly fusing and making yourself stronger and fusing and making yourself stronger, but you never. So you've always increased your potential up significantly, but you've never reached it. So Shenron was like I can do that for you. But then that moment of also like I'm going to throw in a little extra as well too, just because technically you're like my uncle, but I'm not like you type thing.
Speaker 1:You're like my uncle daddy, kind of yeah, it's the't like you type things.
Speaker 2:You like my uncle daddy, kind of yeah, like it's the same balls but a different Namekian that brought me to life. It's a lot of different things, but no, for real though, it's like one of those ones I throw in a little bit extra. So we get Orange Piccolo, where Shinran is, where Piccolo is like oh oh, this is like a slight buff beyond. I am really achieved myself. Orange piccolo showed up and started tanking hits like it was nothing. Gamma couldn't do nothing for him. Yeah, that meme was hilarious. And then, like even cell max like wound up having a little bit of a moment of when Piccolo decided to go giant form again, which I love. Again, super brought back multiple things from the Dragon Ball, so we got Red Ribbon Arby.
Speaker 2:We got Piccolo going back giant form again, because King Piccolo did go giant form when he fought against Kid Goku, but it only happened one time and it was like uh, just kind of a waste of energy, keep him out of this. Going giant form is a waste of energy because you're expanding this energy into yourself so much it uses up a lot of energy. Piccolo has said this multiple times too. That's why he never does it, because it's like uh, I get sure I can make myself giant, but it uses up more energy and I'm not as fast. But he was able to do it against Cell Max because Cell Max isn't a strategist. Cell Max was dumb. His brain did not finish developing, just his power set. This is true. They said this in the movie and in the manga. I'm not saying nothing different, but it was stupid, but literally. That's why he was able to do giant form, because he's like oh, it's just a brute, so I can use this energy to kind of hold him back, type of thing.
Speaker 2:Beast Gohan is just supposed to be another full on potential unleash. But I would say the reason as far as his hair color, I think has the same influence. That happened for Future Trunks. That happened for Future Trunks. Remember, future Trunks got a blue aura that was attached onto him because he was around Super Saiyan, blue Goku and Vegeta for so long when they were fighting as a monster in black and even the fusion form of it.
Speaker 2:He was surrounded by God Ki consistently. And they've said this if you fight alongside someone with God Ki for long enough, the God Ki spills into you as well too. Yeah, like a hand. Yeah, pretty much, and so because of that, he wound up being able to harness that little smidgen of god ki that he got and that's what gave him his like more boosted up, powered up form type of thing.
Speaker 2:And I think the same thing I could say is what happened for gohan. Gohan had, by this point, had already had been around at least enough of it, had been able to see and been around Goku using Ultra Instinct. So I think that that particular point being around it, he wound up getting a smidgen of some of that power as well, or at least a smidgen of essence of it. That kind of went into Beast Gohan, and that probably might have been the reason why his hair went kind of that color type of thing, or it could be Toriyama did elicit to his fans before he passed, because if you look at it, the hair color and the hairstyle is very similar to Super Saiyan 5 little fan drawings that people made Just saying Super Saiyan 5 little fan drawings that people made just saying. Is that not accurate, though?
Speaker 1:I mean, the same could have almost been said about Goku himself. Okay, we're not going to make his hair super wild, we'll just make it like this. That's the funny thing. I like how the difference between Goku is more like white and silver, meanwhile between Goku is more like white and silver, meanwhile Gohan is more like a steel gray.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I can see that. That's why I say it's sliver, but Super was still. There's nothing more to dive into. There's not much that you need to. It was a great movie, just as it was. The manga does kind of like give a little bit more backstory to some characters, but other than that there's not much there. Goten and Trunks do get to fight more in the manga than in the movie. You know they were useless Once they tried to fuse and it failed. They were absolutely useless in the movie.
Speaker 1:But in the manga manga they actually became a little bit more useful. That one moment to where, no matter what like with krillin, to where look here, y'all can say whatever the y'all want about krillin. But at least he kind of tries when it comes to uh, opponents that's stronger than him to where I like he knows that he couldn't be able to take down cellomek, but he still kicked him.
Speaker 2:True, true, he tried. Now with Daima. I'm just like we're excited for Daima. There's already some little fan theories about maybe this time Tien is about to get his power boost, because we haven't seen any humans get any real significant power boost in Miley. We might get something there, who knows? But Daimon, like I said I mentioned before, feels like kind of a retcon type thing because we're jumping right back to the beginning of the blue saga, so before super.
Speaker 1:so we're going to see what happens like I don't know oh yeah, I do remember that how they were trying to fit this in time once where. Okay, so apparently this is going to be happening Right before. Well, you said.
Speaker 2:A year after Earth gets resurrected. After Earth gets resurrected After Kid Buu destroyed it.
Speaker 1:And let's keep in mind that we were told that Dragon Ball Super Happened within the 10 year gap between Kid Buu being defeated and the tournament where Uub was introduced. So I'm like, I'm like, what the hell?
Speaker 2:is going on. Who said that? Though? I need to know who the fuck said that, because now stuff ain't lined up, because the other thing about Super that automatically says this absolutely cannot fit into GT Is go 10 in trunks, because by this point we have come really close to catching up and they're significantly Shorter Than they were supposed to be in GT.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We have a random girl, spark Nigga, where but hold on.
Speaker 1:That also raises a question uh, how many years has it been since the end of GT I mean, excuse me, the end of Dragon Ball Z and the beginning of Dragon Ball GT? Like, was it like a at least a one year or two year gap? Like they just hit puberty by the time they hit the GT?
Speaker 2:like they were kids. Trunks was had taken, gt had taken over his mom's business in capsule court, so he was already ahead of that, and Goten, unfortunately, was a bum just dating girls oh god, he got that young.
Speaker 1:You know how funny um, when he got a little older and I think it was during gt2, um, by the way, like a scene in gt where no, no, it wasn't gt, but it was something. But point being is that uh goten was starting to even look like a little bit like yamcha with the hair, but uh, you know, when he was like kind of growing out almost like gohan in a way, but uh, shorter at the same time too. But uh, point being is that uh goten like trying to become a ladies man, and there's uh, by the, the time he gets GT with the haircut and shit it's because Yamcha's supposed to be cool, I assume.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean that's just a funny thing how Yamcha's just being treated. I mean, hold on, like the way he's being handled to where, on the one hand, yes, he did cheat on Bulma and I I'm not going to let that slide. But at the same time, it's like the one thing that makes me feel bad about Yamcha is that a lot of people who fought with Dragon Ball Z and onward still haven't seen Dragon Ball, so they didn't see the parts where Yamcha was actually useful.
Speaker 2:He was a great fighter martial arts matter, but now that we're in power, scaling it doesn't matter. Shit, no more. Come on, think about it like Dragon Ball Z is not as much about throwing hands anymore as it is throwing ki blasts and attacks what's the most. Remember the thing no one remembers those hand-to-hand fight scenes like that, and what I mean by that is you will see memes pop up and be like oh, they're throwing hands, they're throwing hands, cool, and it lasted for all of five seconds. But then what happens in most of the fight? Oh, it's a special beam attack, oh it's a special ki attack type thing. Oh, ki volley, ki volley. You fighting Vegeta.
Speaker 1:Hold on, y'all. I got to charge up this attack for the next five minutes.
Speaker 2:I'm going to charge up my attack.
Speaker 1:I need somebody to distract them while I charge up this attack. You know what you do remember seeing. You don't remember seeing hand-to-hand combat attack. I need somebody to distract them while I charge them this attack. I'm like what?
Speaker 2:You know what you do remember seeing. You don't remember seeing hand-to-hand combat, but you do remember people getting two-piece in a biscuit consistently and these villains start hitting that gut punch. As a matter of fact, that's another thing you remember.
Speaker 1:Like Dremel is known for having huge gut punches, yeah, like the only time you see like hand-to-hand from the most part is when it seem like they're kind of, you know, like when they're like up in the air and they're like doing that super fast punch and kicking in the air and just seeing like two flies just fighting each other for some reason you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the only time really like for, yeah, that's the only time really like for the most part. Like you see that little detail, but uh, I mean martial arts was a lot more detailed than dragon ball.
Speaker 2:Like we have to be honest to it, and there's nothing against toriyama into it. It's one of those ones that toriyama did this for the fans. This is what fans was asking for.
Speaker 1:This is what we got kind of similar to naruto, to where in Naruto, uh, they were like more rooted to actual ninja, you know, like with kunai and shuriken and all that, but then by the time you get to shippuden, it's all about ninjutsu.
Speaker 2:Baby, the last year the better that part is that ninjutsu, or nine tails, or like demonic energy. That's pretty much what it is. Until you, at least until you get to like some of the final fight scenes. You know moderate was given hands. Oh, and I will say like, like. If you want to think about a tight jutsu fight, like an actual like fighting fight, then one of the most iconic fight scenes is going to be uh Kakashi versus Obito, Especially considering that they did the whole memorial thing into it them fighting in the future, them fighting in the present, them fighting in the past, and it all lines up, but still it's like a continual fight scene sequence that lasts for almost two minutes Of them just throwing hands.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like no talk either. It was just straight music and fighting.
Speaker 2:And so you're just like yeah, and that was one. It used to be like that with Dragon Ball 2. It was, it was Couldn't even go watch this now. Anyway, I don't have nothing else to say on Super. Super to me was better in the manga than it was in the movie, and the movie was still great. The movie still got an internet movie database score of like 9 out of 10. Like got an internet movie database score of like 9 out of 10. Like almost across the board. So like it's still significantly great. So, yeah, for me, moral Arc was pretty straight. We got an opportunity, got some really great callbacks. We got more in-depth story explanation of things that was happening in the universe. It felt like we got more world building. Granola Arc, we kind of just, it was a chance kind of gas, yeah, kind of gas I don't understand these names, though.
Speaker 2:Though, wait, wait, hold on electric gas. Is that really what happened?
Speaker 1:wait, no there's a lot of different ways they're based on the different types of heaters where there's the electric heater, there's an oil heater, there's a gas heater and Maki is like the Japanese word for wood, so you know kind of like a wood heater.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, these names is hilarious. This one was like Toyama's like I'm going to pull it from anywhere, like type of thing. You know, I absolutely appreciate that because me trying to see I'll be sitting here like diving through names. I'm looking through Norse mythology, egyptian mythology, I'm looking through all like various different histories of like combining these great names. That's supposed to mean some different type shit. Toyama's, like there's a plant right there, boom, this person's name is going to be Fern. It was one of those ones that I'm like I'm not even upset about that. I'm like, oh, I put more detail. No, I'm not even that type of person. Fuck all that. I'm literally sitting here like damn, I wasted all this time. You said you were waiting you're a fat guy.
Speaker 1:Next thing you know, she's introduced to this new female character and they just name her. Uh, oh, my name's mary. I like marijuana that part.
Speaker 2:If that happens, I swear I'm gonna laugh my ass off. But you know they're not gonna let that fly.
Speaker 1:You know they're not going to let that slide because you know how they feel about over in Japan. But I'm just you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like it's an example where like well, that'd be easy. Mary and Juan. That's it, mary Juan, mary Juan. Wait a second.
Speaker 1:No, hold on, we need be like oh, let me get a pineapple, gotcha.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, the first one's named Pine and this one's name is Apple, even Sol. My name's Pine, my name is Sol Pine, sol Pine, sol Mopping Glow. I'm gonna start doing that. I'm gonna say fuck it. All my little side characters is gonna be named after Ren. You know what? There's actually a place in the island. There's actually a place in the island. There's actually a village, I can't remember exactly where. There's a village where everyone's names is actually named after, like they're literally named after American names of furniture it's the American words of furniture, specifically, and it's like hilarious. This person's name is actually chair. One person's name is actually table and it's pronounced exactly as it is in the american, in the american language, and it's like wait, your name is chair, your name is table, your name is stove and I'm like fridge. Yeah, wow, hold on a second. What's your name? Mattress? Hold on.
Speaker 1:Fritz. Hey, hold on, Fritz. Are you related to Frieza and his family?
Speaker 2:That part. I just need to know what's going on. Do you have a brother named Cooler? How do you know my brother's name is Cooler? I'm working. Look, I will say this. I am starting to make connections with the Namekians and freezing stuff with Norse mythology, where Shinran is very much like Jormunda is literally the world serpent and the frost giants being fucking freezing. The only thing we need is somebody who has the power to harness electricity, just saying It'll be right there. But that's all to somebody who has the power to harness electricity.
Speaker 2:Just saying it'd be right there. But that's all I got, though I don't have nothing else alright.
Speaker 1:Well, like I said, we pretty much closing out the Dragon Ball Super Extreme Review, which almost closed out the entire Dragon Ball Extreme Review, you know, from like, from dragon ball all the way up to dragon ball super. But of course there's two more things that we did not get before. We were like all the way caught up. Well, three more things, uh, first of all, I don't think we talked about all the movies. Like, I know we talked about dragon ball super broly, but that's mainly because and also dragon ball super superhero, because those, like the main movies that are canon I would also say Battle of Gods and Resurrection of the Elves but they also got adapted to TV format. So it's like, yeah, there are movies, but I just kind of don't count them because you know it's already in TV format.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they've been adapted to the anime and manga, so both of them was like almost exact copies type thing, minus a couple changes.
Speaker 1:So we need to go back to the Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z part for the movies, and then we need to talk about the games. Well, I won't say all the games, at least not all the games in detail. I won't say all the games, at least not all the games in detail, but more like okay, we're going to mainly talk about these games here and there, and then some are going to have some honorable mentions and then, last but not least, we got to talk about Dragon Ball Diamond when that gets done. So, until all that is said and done, just remember to stay nervous and that great things are coming, dear listener. Uh, go ahead and have yourself a good morning, good afternoon and good night. We're zoning out of here, so take it easy.
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