The ZONE Podcast: Nerdy News and Reviews
We, the Zealots of Nerd Entertainment (or the ZONE Alliance), are a group of eople talking about old and new movies, television shows, video games, and everything else in nerd/pop culture!
The ZONE Podcast: Nerdy News and Reviews
Dragon Ball Super: The Xtreme Review (Broly)
Discover why Dragon Ball Super: Broly stands shoulder to shoulder with fan service giants like Spider-Man: No Way Home, as we bring you an episode packed with fiery analysis and passionate fan insights. Kokugatsu and Talos Gundam join me to celebrate the film's incredible animation, unique fight perspectives, and the long-awaited canonical return of Broly. Expect to learn what makes this movie a treat for Dragon Ball aficionados, as well as the little quirks and plot choices that kept us talking, like Frieza's comedic cosmetic wish with the Dragon Balls.
Our conversation dives deep into the rich tapestry of character development and thematic choices that define the Dragon Ball universe. From Vegeta's identity conundrum as the "prince of all Saiyans" to Broly's emotional and anger management struggles, we examine these iconic characters with fresh eyes. Paragus' control over Broly, reminiscent of Jet Li's "Unleashed," adds layers of complexity, while minor characters like Cheelai and Lemo inject humor and depth into the narrative. We even touch upon the whimsical and sometimes frivolous wishes of favorite characters, contributing to the story's intricate weave.
Prepare for an adrenaline-fueled discussion on the exhilarating visuals and narrative highs of Dragon Ball Super: Broly, especially the unforgettable Gogeta vs. Broly showdown. We explore Naotoshi Shida's noteworthy contributions, marvel at the successful blend of CGI with traditional animation, and reflect on the nostalgic yet fresh dynamics between Goku and Broly. While we hold mixed feelings about certain plot elements, the meticulous choreography and storyline arcs keep us hooked. Tune in for a spirited conversation that promises both thoughtful critique and unabashed fandom joy.
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DISCLAIMER: The thoughts and opinions shared within are those of the speaker. We encourage everyone to do their own research and to experience the content mentioned at your own volition. We try not to reveal spoilers to those who are not up to speed, but in case some slips out, please be sure to check out the source material before you continue listening!
Stay nerdy and stay faithful,
- J.B.
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all righty, continuing the dragon ball super extreme review with dragon ball super broly. Uh, joining me once again is kokigasu and talos gundam and, without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. Gentlemen, this movie is up there, up there, like Spider-Man, no Way Home and Deadpool Wolverine. When I say this is one of the best fan service movies I ever seen, and I'm not talking about that perverted shit that we normally talk about. I'm talking about that payoff that, yes, they're finally giving us what we want. You know what I mean. But keep in mind it's not a perfect movie.
Speaker 1:There is some flaws that we're going to talk about, but overall I fucking love this. Oh my God, the characters, the art, the different techniques they use, like, um, the first time ever getting like first person perspective in the fight and all that shit. It was like so many different techniques, you know, and we don't see in the dragon ball um tv format. I'm like, oh my god, y'all are really whipping your dick out for this movie. But Once again, there is some parts that we're gonna talk about where I'm like I didn't really like this part per se, but overall, if I were to grade this movie A minus, but More like A, you know, like 95, there was some flaws, but flaws I can gloss over. But to be fair, because there were some flaws, I noticed 95, 8, just solid 8. Um, before we really get into it uh Kogigatsu, you have any opening statements about the movie? Nah, I don't have too much to really open into it. Uh kogigatsu, you have any opening statements about the movie?
Speaker 2:no, I don't have too much to really open into it. Like I mean, the movie itself was great. Yeah, we got a chance to get a lot of stuff that fans have been asking for for years. They've been asking for broly to come back. Make broly canon, make broly canon, and it's like a whole big thing into it same here.
Speaker 2:So it's one of those ones that was like we were finally super happy to like hey, we got a canonical Broly. Um, also didn't mind that they changed up the story. Uh, there is some points into the change ups that I kind of wish was. Uh, it kind of does make some hiccups, which of course, we're going to talk about, cause you know, when it comes to plot, so when you have plot holes or completely changes stuff that have wound up, was a canonical before and re-changing up and on things, it kind of makes a big difference, and I'm a big space player, so you know, when you re-dig on me, that's a big thing. I don't trust. I have trust issues on that, so, but otherwise, no, it was pretty straight. Um, absolutely loved the movie, so a good chance to talk about it oh, yeah, talos your opening statements first and foremost, let's get this very, very clear, very, very quick right.
Speaker 3:this movie, the Broly movie. It very, very quick, right, alright, this movie, the Broly movie. It was great. First of all, it was great I'm being dramatic it was relatively great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like god damn. Sometimes I love it, but you kind of piss me off with how dramatic you be like. Come on, bro, tell me how you feeling.
Speaker 3:That's necessary for this's that's necessary for this. It's necessary for this because, with this movie right here, we got to actually see a better broly. Yeah, before somebody come at me, yes, I'm still. I'm saying this one is a little bit better than the original broly.
Speaker 1:Hey, I like how Team Four Star Was like made that joke in a boob bitch To where, oh um, was all that Before or after we met Broly Like wait, which one the good one? Oh yeah, after.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like I said, this one right here was the better version Of Broly, so Don't really.
Speaker 1:Sympathize with Broly in this one, like you really do, like with the shot caller and everything, the abusive father and all that's it. Yeah, you kind of it's like, yeah, he's like the main antagonist, but he's not a villain, it's just. If anything, it's like he's one of those antagonists like I don't want him to lose, but you don't want Goku and Vegeta to lose either. So I'm like like like at least don't kill him though, just please. You just made him canon, alright, oh, was there?
Speaker 3:anything more from you other than that this movie overall was relatively good. I'm not gonna. I'll get into more of like the better parts of this movie, but at the same time I have some complaints, but we'll get into that alright, so let me just go ahead and get into that.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, so let me just go ahead and get into the plot. So, essentially, we're going back in time to where is Goku's origin story. Now, right here, let's just say that we all know what the big Dragon Ball fans know. This is how they adopt Dragon Ball minus into the canon. Now, a lot of people don't like dragon ball minus, but with this, the way they did dragon ball minus in this movie, they made some improvements where I'm like, okay, I'll let y'all have that much.
Speaker 1:But overall, the main thing that we didn't like was that the fact that goku's uh, backstory was similar to superman, big coincidence. Okay, that was like a fluke, whatever, we're just gonna make that a big joke. But then when you make dragon ball maya thing, you made it a little too obvious that they have the same backstory. I'm like I don't like that. I don't like that, um, but what I did like was obviously goku's mama jine makes a canonical appearance. Second thing, uh, the fact that in the manga version, bardock was like oh, I got a bad feeling about all this. But in the movie, no, this dude was like uh let me Crunch some numbers and you know those mathematical equations, you know that type of shit.
Speaker 1:The meme like Alan from the Hangover, where it was like all those Uh-uh, all that shit going on. Yeah, it was kind of like that to where I'm like Uh-uh, why is he calling us all Back to the planet? Uh-uh, why is he calling everybody Back? Uh-uh, he's setting us up, he's trying to kill us. He was like, hey, I heard Super Saiyan was on this plan. Wait, yeah, oh, we don't know what the fuck he's talking about. Oh, yeah, I don't know what the fuck. All right, I'm going to pull the whole fucking plan. And he's like oh, and of course, you know another kind of weird change to where, in the original run, goku was an infant when he was blasted off to Earth In this one, they kind of retconned it to where he was old enough to wear Saiyan armor in this one and then they blasted off his like okay, um, mommy and daddy saw him off and mommy was like don't forget us, sweetie. And I'm like oh, d-nate, oh, d-nate.
Speaker 1:Clearly he's been reading you don't know what's going to happen, because he's going to bump his head. And I was like, oh what? But my thing was, if that was the thing where that sand armor, I'm curious. I'm just curious like it's a slight nitpick, I don't really care that hard. But if they're gonna do that and I'm like, okay, he blasts off this face in that armor, where is it now? Curious, uh, oh yeah, broly, how you know Now curious, oh yeah, Broly, how you know how it is.
Speaker 1:Broly had so much potential that King Vegeta was like I ain't having that Frieza, and Broly I mean not Broly, Beerus, by extension. You're like no, no, no, no, that's going to spook them. They're going to feel like, oh, we're a threat. We're just going to take him out eventually. No, no, no, uh, get him out of here so that way we can convince them to not kill us. You know, and the funny thing about king vegeta is that he warned perigus that bro's potential could be a danger to the universe and to himself. And you fast forward later into the movie and perigus now realized what king veget said. It was like, yeah, deep cut, huh, oh yeah, when they do get the vampire and they had this dude named Beats involved too and Paragus was like okay, we're not going to have enough food for everybody, so kill, beats. And funny thing once again you fast forward to the movie and frieza kills him in the same fashion and I'm like, yeah, that's karma for you, but that's enough for that chunk. How'd y'all feel about that open floor?
Speaker 2:Talos. Go ahead, man. Okay, guess I'll just take the floor then. So, so, when it comes down for like some of the retcon things yeah, like I have those moments for like Kid Goku, because that's a whole big thing for him is like that whole old grandpa Gohan found me and then accidentally dropped me on my head because I was thrashing around and stuff, because I had this violent notion in my head to attack and attack and attack because it's part of my programming, because it was thrashing around and stuff, because I had this violent notion in my head to attack and attack and attack because it's part of my programming, because it was part and even Radixhead says it that, oh yeah, we send infant childs to go and then the look of the moon, turn into giant great apes for the entire planet there's one more thing I forgot Vegeta.
Speaker 1:When he finds out that Planet Vegeta got blown up, his first line Finding out was not that oh my dad's dead or oh my people's dead. His only thing to say at that moment Was oh well, damn, I guess I'll never be king. That little motherfucker was standing on business. But at the same time I'm like it's just a weird thing to wear like that. That's how you feel about your planet blowing up. You don't care enough about the planet blowing up or your dad being dead. It's just that. Oh well, you know my lineage is fucked up, so I'm just stuck being a prince. Alright, continue, kokugatsu, okay. Oh well, you know my lineage is fucked up, so I'm just up being a prince.
Speaker 2:All right, continue, okay um, but yeah, it's like it was a whole big thing as far as this is a story, and even what you said as well too. With regita it doesn't, with that being the point that changed. It doesn't make sense about him constantly having this whole I'm the prince of all sayings. I'm the prince of all sayings. I guess I won't be king anymore. That's not like you're just abandoning the lineage. So why are you still so gung-ho about being the prince of all sayings, like I?
Speaker 1:feel like it's a cop out to where. I'm like, honestly, at this point, man like to like rebuild it, like you could just went to an uninhabited planet, just called it new vegeta and like nobody's gonna stop you be like, hey, I'm the king of new vegeta. I'm like, okay, cool, you're the new king. I'm like you could have done that. But no, I'm like I guess he just wanted that to be part of his character probably I don't know um.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's definitely some retcon things that kind of do, kind of sit the original sayings did you know, take over the planet like you could have just did that but who are you ruling over?
Speaker 2:if you take over the planet, you know you want to rule over only your own sayings, not necessarily just the inhabitants of that planet per per se.
Speaker 1:Oh, true true, rather be your own, but then again you can just do the Viltrumite route to where, oh, just find someone that's like eh, you look close enough. Like I say, we'll work with you.
Speaker 2:This is true, this is true. But then I also even go into the fact of like with what happened with Broly. As far as like him, honestly, it was one of those ones that I was just like okay, toriyama was really like that Jet Li movie Unleashed with the whole collar thing. That thing was like I was like bro, what in the world? The whole, the whole, the perigous whole thing. He could never get off the planet. No matter how hard he tried, he still kept trying. For how many years did he? He's still like I can't get off the planet. I tried, we've done everything we could, but we just can't.
Speaker 2:So aggravating, you know, I'm like broly. He's on the phone, you knowers from his father constantly having to nick control of him because, instead of trying to really show him how to properly harness his own power, because Paragus really has no idea, this is one of those ones of like dang okay. So I'm just going to have to control you. There's nothing I can do, I'm just going to shock you every time you get mad. So Broly was heavily much needed in anger management. Shout out to cali kaiju, our zone therapist definitely looking for his own therapy coming, coming up. But you know, anger management is something that it's okay to need. People get angry, you get angry from stuff that happens, and broly has good reason to, for obvious reasons, into that. Thrown away as a baby and then constantly being controlled by his dad, he doesn't really have as much free will, literally I just like the way you said that it's like throw away the baby yeah, but then even to the point that he was not really allowed to have a pet.
Speaker 2:That paragus got so upset and was like no, how dare you can't have a pet like this. No, you're getting too attached you, you're getting too sentimental. It's starting to mess you up. It's not doing what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 1:That's what makes you weak students, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was like that's really messed up. And so Brody still has that ear of the creature wrapped around his waist. First off, understand, when we first got a design choice onto it, we was like, oh, oh, this is a pretty badass design. Got a little like leg. Oh, that's what's up. Little did we know. It was like, oh, that's going to be crucial to his development. Oh, interesting, okay, I mean, I did like the killer palette on him.
Speaker 1:It's like, okay, his main thing is green, but the purple also balances it out a little bit, the purple and the black. Well, at least up until he goes super tan and just breaks out of that armor. Then otherwise, yeah, it's just mainly the leggings and whatnot, but still though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true, true. But yeah, it was like one of those ones like, go figure, oh, you know, his design choice is actually on purpose and it was like, oh, that's pretty interesting. I actually like that you get this introduction to these other two characters who, even though, let's be honest, they have a minor role, but they get a major role later on Because if it wasn't for them two, if it wasn't for such a pretty girl to get Beerus' mind onto, get his mind off of destruction every now and again, and another guy who can cook fantastically, who adapted earth cuisine into his repertoire so easily that he's able to go ahead and whip up good foods and stuff, if there was not for them to, beers was probably still be on the rampaging and stuff, because there's only so much I know we're jumping.
Speaker 1:I know we're jumping, but listen, I like how, on the moment Beard laid items on Cheelai, he was like you know what? I like you, you can stay on this planet forever.
Speaker 2:Pretty much Everyone got the free pass just because she was there. But look, I'm not going to lie to her. Let's be honest. Why, why did they have her Pixar animators to design her, or something like that? Why she did, why we had to go to this?
Speaker 1:point. It also didn't help that she did kind of like, did the friend service thing on purpose, you know, like kind of fixing her chest, you know that shit that she was doing. It was like it wasn't like. Yeah, it was like it was here and there, but not Too much.
Speaker 2:You say that, bro, I mean, at least for me it's like More like, okay, one or two scenes Like it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 1:Otherwise I'm like, yeah, she's like the cute chick that bro Is gonna have some sort of Relationship with. It's not like a Full on romance, but it's more like, at the very least, um Broly likes Cheelai because he's like the first person that was ever nice to him, and meanwhile Cheelai just uh, empathized With um Broly to where, like he's, you know, even though he's a 41 year old man. It's like he's pretty much like he's mindless, like that. It's like he's pretty much like you might as well say that man's like a man-child who's just following the orders of his abusive father. And I'm like his best friend was just an animal. I'm like I just feel bad for him guys, true, true.
Speaker 2:And my last little Red Connie thing, like as we have so far, is Raddus now becomes like his whole story is completely changed and it makes no sense. But raddus showed up. He was like, literally, my little brother got sent here. I had no idea where he was at and da, da, da da. But if you pay attention now to the backstory, raddus did find out where goku went. Why did he wait so long and why did he now say, oh, I'm now looking for my little brother? I think, what was it? 20 something years later?
Speaker 1:I bet you you know what? I bet you that when, if they come back with an anime adaptation of the moral arc and the granola arc and whatnot, because keep in mind that the manga is like straight to business for the most part, but in the anime it's more fluff. So maybe in the filler they might explain that.
Speaker 2:I doubt they will, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I think it's just going to be let go. We're so much further than this now, so I know y'all can't see my face, but imagine my fist being aimed at you.
Speaker 3:You better adopt a new fucking gentleman.
Speaker 2:But, uh, I mean, but we're just, we're so far along so I don't know, we're probably not going to be honest. But I mean, if we do, cool, but I highly doubt it. But yeah, it's just one of those ones.
Speaker 1:Also the implication that Raddus and Medina was on good terms With each other. They weren't friends, but it was like they at least know each other. They know of each other.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. It's like there's some situations that doesn't quite make sense into this. But I mean, when you read Khan's story, you read Khan's stories it happens I mean Toriyama himself, like while he was still alive at the time he even said his memory wasn't the best and he had forgotten some things. So it made sense. He's not going to fully go along with the whole story that we got at the beginning of Dragon Ball and the beginning of Dragon Ball Z. So things are going to wind up changing. It just happens. I would even also go as far while we're still talking about the beginning portion, obviously before we get into the super awesome fight sequence as well.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that's a funny thing. We're at the weakest point in the movie. We didn't even get to the best part yet.
Speaker 2:My biggest thing also is the fact that, so seriously, frieza found a strong saying that still was loyal to him but only wanted to use it because he wanted to get dragon balls to make himself a little bit taller not too much, though, not too much to where people can know. Knew that he made a wish, but not too little.
Speaker 1:I want people to believe that I'm still growing and I'm like but, sire, you have your second. I don't want to use that for him it's weaker.
Speaker 2:So it's like Seriously. But I mean other than that there's like little points into the story. You just like you kind of threw something together Just to make a big ass fight.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 1:Think about it at this point. The way they use Dragon Balls is so frivolous. I mean, in the next movie Bulma used the Dragon Balls To get a bigger ass.
Speaker 2:But that's Bulma. Bulma has used the Dragon Balls and abused it so many times. That was a whole big thing. The Z Fighters have abused the Dragon Balls so much. That was a whole thing in GT about that. Every single one produced a shit, a lot of combat, like in Dragon Ball 2. Yes, so many times, but they abuse it. I'm like really Freeza. Really my thing about it is this but I'm like, really Frieza, really my thing about it is this why did he have to come to Earth to get the dragon balls?
Speaker 1:I think that he doesn't. I think it's the Implication that he only knows Namek and Earth has Dragon balls and it's like Even then you could have just visited new Namek. I mean, and Earth has Dragon Balls, and it's like even then you could have just visited New Namek. I mean, oh ooh, that's a weird thing. He probably doesn't know that New Namek's a thing.
Speaker 2:Well, who knows that? Maybe that's the whole case.
Speaker 3:Okay, so real quick on that. One right Fun fact he doesn't know New Namek exists. Wait, fun fact he doesn't know Namek exists.
Speaker 1:Wait, he does or doesn't.
Speaker 3:He doesn't. Freeza didn't know Namek exists. As far as he knows, the Nameks all died out. That's as far as he knows. He knows that they died out. So because Namekians relatively don't raise their power levels like that, he can't see them. I mean, so he didn't know that they literally were there. As far as going for any other set of Dragon Balls, aka like the Super Dragon Balls or whatever, yeah, it's already been stated. While he thinks of himself highly as a badass, he knows he's not finna, go into any other destroyer's territory and try to pull a planet-sized Dragon Ball. He wasn't finna. Do that shit. That's the reason as to why they're like okay, yeah, hey, he's coming to Earth because he wanted some payback. He wanted to get the Dragon Balls, yes, but he knows Goku and Vegeta are there, which is why he grabbed Broly, because he was like, oh shit, this makes this plan perfect. I'm going for the monkeys anyway. That part playing, perfect, I'm going for the monkeys anyway.
Speaker 1:Oh, even better, I'll have them kill each other?
Speaker 3:Yeah, therein lies that. So go ahead, Jimmy. I saw your hand, my bad.
Speaker 2:Go ahead that was by mistake Okay.
Speaker 3:I didn't have anything else. You're good to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so legit. That's the legit reasoning behind that. Now, mind you, mind you, I'm relatively what the wishes were for between him and Bumble both of them stupid. That's one of the complaints that I got legit for this movie. I'm like you're telling me, both of y'all just want to be fucking taller.
Speaker 1:I think it's the insecurities where it's like oh well, you know, I just don't stack up very well. I mean, think about it, my main rival towers over me. I can't have that. But like I said, think about it, my main rival towers over me.
Speaker 3:I can't have that. But, like I said, that was the most stupid. Nobody's going to take me seriously. That was the most stupidest reason that writers and everything else came up with to be like, oh yeah, this is why he visited the planet. Okay, that's one of my things. That's the reason why I'm just like y'all can come up with nothing else. It had to be the most goofy. It had to be the most goofy ass answer. Oh, I just wanted to be a little taller. A little taller, not even just. Oh, I wanted to be taller. I wanted to be a little taller. How tall? Maybe a few inches, what? Ah shit, get the fuck out Like that right there. That right there was just like alright, you know what?
Speaker 1:Honestly, I feel like let's never forget that from the very beginning, dragon ball has been a comedy to its core, to where I'm like, okay, they're gonna throw a little curveball and I'm like that was one of the weirdest curveballs ever. So I'm like it's it warrants a little criticism, but it's so funny that I can't be too mad at it. It's almost like what a convenient excuse just to get into the fold.
Speaker 3:And speaking of, y'all can see my face. Y'all can see my face. Y'all will understand how I'm not going to even roll with that bullshit. Yes, we have comedy at the core, but you're telling me that the one thing you wanted comedic was damn, you just want Dragon Balls. But we want to be a little bit taller. By how much? By how much?
Speaker 1:Hold on, I was saying that was the only bit, because, speaking of old, speaking of old, can we like jump to the part to where Frieza was getting folded by Broly for an hour? That was like the funniest shit All right.
Speaker 3:So with that part that was definitely one of the grandest things I have ever fucking seen in my entire life that I laughed. I was like, okay, this shit here, this right here is the definition Like legit. You got your ass booked for an hour and 30 minutes. Hold him off for 90 seconds. Freeza, what An hour. Have fun, Freeza, I'm like what do you mean?
Speaker 1:An hour have fun, Freezer.
Speaker 3:I'm like what you mean Post-art, post-art. It's just gonna be a minute thirty. No, no, nigga, no, they upped the ante on that bitch. They said 90 seconds was 90 minutes. What yeah?
Speaker 1:Oh well, my bad, we kind of messed the diffusion dance a couple of times, but we got it.
Speaker 3:We got it Ah shit, Ah shit, Ah shit, oh Lord All right.
Speaker 2:We got to get going, but he did get folded very like fantastically. But I also have to say like say, that really describes how durable he is and pretty much about how much key he really kind of had. Let's real talk, you didn't fold it for an hour straight. He still stayed in gold form the whole time. I have to give him a little bit of props. I'm not you want to know why I'm not.
Speaker 3:Here's the reason why I'm not giving him no props, right, and this is why I say, where a lot of people look at power skills and be like holy shit, you know, he lasted this long. Oh, they doing it. No bitch, that was for comedic relief. He was getting his ass whooped like a fucking cartoon.
Speaker 1:I mean, if we had more scenes of the fight then it would make more sense for him to power down. But since it just mainly cut towards Goku and Vegeta trying to get the fusion dance down, pat, it was like, eh, Like wait, what happened to where he powered down? Like, how bad did he get beat? Like I want details and I'm like the movie's probably going to stretch. See, that's the funny thing nowadays. Nowadays I can Tolerate longer movies, as long to explain shit In a concise way, like if you add like a few more Minutes, as long as you like add shit that like makes sense for it to be Added. I don't mind a long movie. I mean, I sat through the Batman and I fucking love that movie three hours, but it didn't feel like three hours there you go.
Speaker 2:It felt almost like about an hour and 40 minutes to me, but I understand. But on some realness, though, is the fact that, like, I completely hear what you're saying, talos, it's one of those things of like. Look, he still, like you know, took that L. He took it. He didn't take enough of the L For all the nonsense that he's done, but he still took that L nonetheless. It's just one of those things of like. It's just. You can see, goku got his face smashed Through an ice block. He got hit so hard he got knocked. He got literally knocked. His eyes were knocked white, then knocked his pupils back again. Hold on.
Speaker 1:Like can I applaud Sean Schimmel for the way he was like screaming the whole time. It was like really convincing that he was in pain and I'm like I know this is a guy, um, just reading his lines but like damn, it's like I can't. Actually I feel like I'm the one getting rocked in that place.
Speaker 2:I'm like you don't remember his screen back in nanic. Yeah, like the dude, literally he said. He said that he literally almost passed out in the booth with that screen from that super saiyan transformation screen. It it was real. He's had practice enough into it. I mean Dragon Ball Z. If there's anything fighting super forms and lots of yelling, it's real talk.
Speaker 1:Man in a way. I kind of like how they kind of sell the uh emotion a little bit, just a little bit, not a whole lot. But, um, at this point let's go ahead and get into a little further into the stories where, okay, at this point it's after the Tournament of Power, uh, Goku training with Vegeta around this desert island, around this desert island, and while that's happening, you see all the events happening like, um, like keystone moments and all that shit, while the animation, um, in their fight. And I just felt like, okay, this is what we should expect as far as the fight scene goes and the rest of the movie, okay, cool. Uh, of course they gotta gathered the Dragon Ball again, but eventually they get the seventh Dragon Ball got stolen by three support soldiers and O'Malley's bowl up with beer is being a babysitter While Goku Vegeta, we go to the Arctic to get the seventh dragon ball Before Frieza Gets his hands on it. And then that's when, essentially, broly Paragus At that time was rescued by Cheelai and Lemo.
Speaker 1:They have this whole moment like how Cheelai was getting Harassed by one of the Frieza Force soldiers and Broly was standing up to him like the lady said, leave her Alone, and the dude was like man, what the fuck you gonna do? I'm like bro, buddy, buddy, buddy. The dude is like a foot and a half Taller than you. You do not want this movie. And then he almost killed that man. By the way, broly almost killed that man, but Pedriga's like no bad Broly and shocked him with the call. And I'm like Bro, he's like you can just see Once again, you can just like see the visual pain on Broly's face with the veins popping Out and shit.
Speaker 1:I'm like bro, like, and, yeah, like what I was saying earlier, how T-Light was like empathizing with Broly. And I was like bro, like that. Yeah, like what I was saying earlier, how chela was like empathized with bro and was like bro, like that's how you treat your own son. I'm like, oh, you don't understand, don't act like you don't know what we've been through. And I was like buddy, okay, um, and then, of course, by the time Goku, vegeta and the gang catch up to Frieza and came out and he had like that aura, that just. And then Goku and Vegeta was like, oh yeah, this the one right there. This boy seemed like a challenge right here. So the fight's just about to pop up. But before we get into all that, y'all got anything to add on I?
Speaker 2:want to talk about the real quick the, the conversation that, um, oh yeah, my bad, real quick. I want to talk about the conversation that paragus had with frieza. About frieza admitting you know, I'm the one that blew up your planet, right? He's like you know, I killed the king. And it was one of those ones that paragus had with Frieza. About Frieza admitting you know, I'm the one that blew up your planet, right, he's like you know, I killed the king. And it was one of those ones that Paragus is like all the better. I absolutely hated him type of thing, because it was that moment of like, frieza, not even sure how that was going to go, but then hitting that point of like, okay, I like you.
Speaker 1:I like you, cookie. I said hold on, you just triggered a talking point I was going to make when we get to the granola arc. But I gotta say I hate the way Vegeta. I hate the way Vegeta found out about how Planet Vegeta got blown up because it just felt so casual to a point to where I'm like that should have been a more emotional moment. At that point to where I'm like I I was really hoping that it would be the moment where Frieza would dangle that over Goku and Vegeta and Broly's head well, pretty much all the Saiyans head or full blooded Saiyans I don't know about half Saiyans Because you know they weren't oh, they care Just dangle that information Over their head like a carrot and be like I know what Really happened to Plan Vegeta. And I'm like, well, yeah, you blew it up, but do you want to know why I blew it up? I'm like I didn't blow it up. I was like Ask him and just Pant panel with the Beerus and I'm like what's that got to do with this?
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, you know something like that. But no, it was like a training session where Vegeta was learning how to be like Harned's God of Destruction energy, destruction Energy, and Beerus want to give Vegeta the same kind of motivation Vegeta gave Cabba back in the Universe 6 tournament, to where I'm like, hey, you know what would really help you If I told you that I'm the one who hired Frieza to put the head out on Planet Vegeta and I was like yeah, he got mad.
Speaker 2:But I'm like, ah, let's be real honest, though. What would he have been able to do Last time? Vegeta got very angry and upset at the time was when, at Beerus was when he slapped Bulma, and at that point he got super enraged, but he still got his behind backhanded like it was nothing to be real.
Speaker 1:Like okay, uh, we have like a strained relationship now because on the one hand, yeah, you're training us, but on the other hand, you're the one behind the hit. So I'm like, at the very least, it's gonna be like that sort of duality going on. But it didn't feel like that. It's more like okay, whatever, let's fight, let's fight. Now. I'm like really.
Speaker 2:Can I throw a line in here? This is that moment. Let's see if y'all can catch this reference. I did it to make you stronger. You succeeded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I guess I expected too much honestly, I agree with you, though I really had hoped that it would have kind of got more, I mean. But then let's also think about how you know it's going to be too much of a jump, because for that moment we really have to jump into what ultra ego really is and that moment of understanding into that and that's going to be a lot that is. That is a lot to really kind of dive into. So we're not going to jump too much into it, but understand that point. The simplest thing I could put in this way is it had been so long and vegeta has gone through so much healing, so by that point, yes, it still would have been that moment of like dang, you could have been a little bit more upset.
Speaker 2:But he's keep in mind by this point he no longer keeps pushing that agenda as much as much of him being the prince of all sayings type thing. He's accepted the fact that he's already moved on from that. His dad is dead. He's never wished them back. They never wished them back to life still Still a whole plot thing itself. He's kind of grown. So yeah, you might spark that little anger moment into him, but Vegeta has grown in the story. He's had a lot of changes that's happened to him. He's been humbled a hell of a lot, but he's been humbled, so that might be the reason why we didn't get as much out of him.
Speaker 1:Based on how the writing I mean, I guess not an emotional outburst, but at least some sort of speech where I'm like, okay, yeah, that you put the head out, but I'm like okay, but you know, in its own way he's not as upset as he as you would think he would. Like I was expecting something like instead of just okay, he's just getting a little angry and that just like boosts him enough to like continue the training, but like I don't know, I was just kind of expecting at least a speech or something. I guess, at the very least, that's what I wanted.
Speaker 1:I gotcha um, the fight, oh my god. Okay, first of all, I kind of like how, for once, vegeta get the satisfaction of, oh, the guy coming after me first, and I'm like I mean you could take that as an honor, but at the same time, wouldn't that just make you more like the opening act to the headliner? I'm just, I'm just saying, I'm just bullshitting, but for the most part the fights were great. Duper saying god, vegeta makes a debut.
Speaker 1:By the way, there's a bunch of firsts in this movie, like uh, first time we've seen um goku's mom, first time seeing super saiyan god form vegeta. Uh, we get a little glimpse of ultra instinct. Just you know the way goku was trying to uh power up to super saiyan blue and it was like, visually it just seemed so impressive because it looked like all these different colors, like there was like green in there too. I was like, wait, hold on. Like so there's a whole theory in that. You know, like being related to like bro, uh, his uh physiology and all that. But uh, I'm not gonna get that deep into it, but uh, all those different colors to where, like, there was like that little glimpse of ultra instinct where I'm like, okay, that was like a wink towards. Yeah, this is definitely past the tournament power to where I'm like, uh, he still has access to ultra instinct, but he hasn't fully met. Well, he, he has to master Ultra Instinct form, but he still needs to learn how to maintain that form, kind of like with Super Saiyan in the first place, where they had to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to learn how to stay in that form for longer than just a few minutes or so. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what else about that fight? Oh man, you know what, visually it was just glorious. How, like different um perspectives, like, uh, the cgi let's be honest, like cgi was passable. Normally it just seems so ugly, like the way it clashes with the 2d and the 3d, but in this movie it was passable to me, uh, because at the very least, like some of the art in the background and whatnot, it was still beautiful and all that shit. But, uh, also when the dimension was breaking and whatnot, I just thought it was pretty cool. Uh, but at least it didn't like overstay, welcome. You know what I mean. Uh, what can I say? I'm like you normally don't see that in Dragon Ball or in anime.
Speaker 1:Like, okay, there was this one part that I was gonna nitpick about. Uh, there's this one guy uh I hope I'm got this name right uh, now, toshi shida. Uh, he was working on this movie and there was like some parts, like you know, when broly was like in his super saiyan form and he used that mouth, cannon, whatnot uh, some of the frames like gogeta uh, base form, gogeta, uh, dogs in a blast and all this other shit like that sounds cool and all. Until you realize that the same guy was working on shit like one piece and you can see those same frames and shit in One Piece. So I'm like, ah, now it don't feel as special anymore. I mean, I still like it, but it doesn't feel special if you're using the exact same shit in different things. You know what I mean. So it just feels a little lazy right there, but I can gloss over it.
Speaker 1:Um, um, I had mixed feelings about the way, um, she lied using the dragon balls to wish broly with. Now, bear in mind, I like that she made that wish, but it kind of cheapened the stakes a little bit to where it's like you kind of know, bro, it's gonna be all right, but it's like, and I'm just kind of waiting to see how this plays out. At this point it's almost like that part's where you know you're thinking like goku, I'm gojita, excuse me charging up that full force command mayhem, by the way, they call it different things like ultimate command mayhem, whatnot, but nah, full force sounds like, oh shit, they pouring every bit of energy. They got into this motherfucker, like you see that. Look inside to where, like, the light gleams and whatnot, like horizon, zenith and that shit going on inside. Uh, it's almost like, yeah, you, it looked like he. They were really trying to kill him. And you see that. Look in his face, um, broly's face, when, as soon as the blast was almost by him, he saw the pupils in his eyes for the first time after he like, went crazy and I just like those little details right there.
Speaker 1:Um, I know I'm kind of underselling it, but there was a lot of moments, um, especially by the time they fuse into gogeta and they just fight and whatnot, especially when the fact that once they go, super saiyan, blue, gogeta, broly doesn't get a single lick on them. But outside of that, the fight was excellent. Like it's hard to put into words how I love that fight, like it's describing it just won't do it enough justice for me. It's like it's just one of those things where I'm like, bro, you just gotta watch it one good time to fully understand what the fuck I'm talking about. But, um, outside of that, you know, broly's fine, um chihayi, limo, uh, limo, excuse me. Uh, they try to blast off. But frieza tried to stop him but gojira was like no, no, no, don't you do that. And then frieza's like, fine, whatever, I'll come back from miniboss. And then I'm gonna give y'all the work.
Speaker 1:And you know, goku goes off to Banpa to link up with him. And you know, give him like capsules, food and whatnot. And Eli was like hey, yo, so you may not never know, we're going to be on the same planet. Like no, that's OK, I'll find you with his power level. I'm like no, like nah, that's okay, I'll find you with with his power level. I'm like no, no, I'll find you. But um, hey, yo, let me know if you ever want to train sometime, bro.
Speaker 1:And that was the first time he actually was looking forward to training, because keep in mind that when training with his father he wasn't all that into it, because, you know, perry is being perry. But with goku. It was like, actually I was, I think I'll enjoy that. And then he was like, oh, uh, what's your name, by the way? I was like, oh right, uh, my name's goku, but you know what? You can call me, kakara. And I'm like, yeah, that was a little call back to the original Broly, to where, like Kakarot, but it's like at this time it's more on friendly terms I was like, what can I say, guys, like for both and all, excellent movie. But uh, what y'all got.
Speaker 2:I want to mention something real quick that you mentioned as far as it being full power, you know, big bang, command man, stuff like that. Um, so, realistically, into the aspect you already said earlier in our review, it's usually like don't kill him, cause that's how you kind of were at the point at the beginning of the movie. He was like, oh man, it's going to be great. And then we kind of get this understanding of Brody's backstory, brody's backstory like oh, just don't kill him, like don't let him die, don't let him die. So when you have that mindset, it doesn't make her wish seem too Bad about the fact of like, oh, you know, wish him away, let's wish back to the planet that we went to.
Speaker 1:I said that I didn't Excuse me. I said that I did like the wish. I just didn't like how it cheapened the stakes Of the fight. It just almost feel like the fight just felt like okay, we know what's going to happen, we're just waiting for the witch to kick in.
Speaker 2:It was like ah, Because she was showing up about to die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why fans were like man we already know he's going to survive.
Speaker 1:It's just that if they was a little more clever about it, it was like okay, okay, kind of like a hint towards that she like might use the dragon balls, and then you do not see anything from her until that blast almost hits him, and then you hear him fly away. And then it's like wait, whoa what happened? And then it cuts back to when she like was like, you know, like in a flashback kind of way. You know, like I was like it was a little blurry, you know, um, visually, where it's like oh, it's like, okay, they have to rewind on a little bit to where, like, okay, chih-lai um kind of threatened this guy to tell him how the dragon balls work. And then it's like okay, so uh, as soon as the blast was hitting, like you know, they're gonna fast forward a little bit again To where he's like he almost dies. And then that's when he like makes the wish. If it was like that, I would love to even more. It's like give us that swerve. You know what I mean Like.
Speaker 1:I can understand that, yeah.
Speaker 2:I gotcha, I gotcha okay, but then again.
Speaker 1:I'm like it would be more noticeable With the dragon. You know how the have been more noticeable with the dragon. You know how the skies get black whenever the dragon shows up. It would have been more noticeable with that. But then again it would have been like a visual, uh, like an optical illusion to where, oh, the fight was getting so badass that, like you know, the lava and all that shit Like, oh well, you know things were getting so bad. You might as well darken the scene to where it's like, okay, that kind of makes sense, but we didn't know the dragon was being awakened. That would have been the perfect word.
Speaker 2:Well, that's true. That's true. I mean, their fight broke shattered dimensions. They went into the shatter space. If we're going back to sonic, oh, I'm sorry, but for real, though, is the fact that it would make sense I could switch on to that point because, yeah, like with them shattering dimensions, lava is shooting into the sky, blackening out with all the clouds. Yeah, you wouldn't have been able to notice the fact that the eternal dragon was summoned, because the sky is already getting completely messed up. There's already giant cataclysmic storms from everything, so you can kind of understand that. So, yeah, I can see what you mean on that point.
Speaker 1:Not against the wish, I just didn't like how it was telegraphed.
Speaker 2:I gotcha One of the things that I really enjoyed when it came down for the fight sequence I already mentioned earlier. You know Goku got majorly clapped. We don't get a chance to see goku get that, you know, lose that horribly or get beat that horribly. We don't get a chance to see that and it was awesome I mean for the people who don't like goku.
Speaker 1:I guess that was more uh catharsis by proxy, you know like kind of like um loki getting ragdolled by hulk in the avengers movie it's not even so much of that let's put into.
Speaker 2:I'm putting this aspect as a fact, like I've been seeing a lot of youtube videos right now, and the biggest thing is when it comes down for the characters, for the actors who have in the contract that they can never lose, type of thing and they can't really look like they're losing, that they may lose and stuff. Yeah, so it's like. So you start coming to those points you'd be like that's really how it started, feeling like for goku too. Like here's the thing goku went to like intense fights, but anytime he was pushed the there's not too much, too many times you see him push to the point that he's like oh, he's actually really about to lose this fight. Like we really kind of got a feeling of that with boo, but not as much, not as much Like with Kid Boo. They just kept biting each other. That was really it.
Speaker 1:They just kept biting each other all the time. You know what? I'm kind of glad they didn't ever actually do that.
Speaker 2:And then even with the whole thing, with like the whole thing, yeah, and then like, and we got a chance to see broly do it at the beginning, like at the very, very beginning, and so it was like awesome, you get a chance to really see how this kind of goes. And goku got clapped early in the fight, like it was like oh wow, wait a second, and this is base form, broly I just remember my favorite theory.
Speaker 1:Okay, before super saiyan, he was going in what is known as his raffle form and if you notice how his eyes turn like a little like yellow, like orange is yellow, I guess you can say. And in a way it's like, hold the fuck on, let me Google this real quick. What is this Raffle form really is? And the description, I swear to God, sounds just like Super Saiyan 4. And I'm thinking, hey, bro, theory time. What if Broly is the missing link to the Super Saiyan 4 form?
Speaker 1:Because, let's be honest, at this point, the way they're gonna retcon, um, the whole timeline of things with dragon ball super, I'm now kind of convinced that if they continue with the uh, with the anime, they might have to retcon gt to a degree. Like, at this point, it's like, how are y'all gonna work this out? To where I'm like no way all this gonna fit at the end of Z. To where you know how they say that all the events of Dragon Ball Super happened within that 10 year gap between Kid Buu being defeated and the tournament. To where they met Uub. And it's like, ah, at this point you're going to have to retcon some shit. But that is my opinion.
Speaker 2:Honestly, a lot of people had a lot of those theories about the whole Broly possibly being that missing link because of the fact that you know, yeah, he's so primal, his is like straight up primal energy and his primal strength that literally battles that of god-like powers and stuff, even understand the fact of, like that vegeta and goku still have nowhere near mastered their god key, they have learned to harness it enough for blue.
Speaker 2:But I think this is also something that was specifically that was mentioned, that a lot of people kind of glossed over, and I'm actually happy, um, that. I cannot remember the youtuber, but there was a dude on youtube who actually pointed this out. It was like there was a point where we had a conversation with the oracle fish and in the oracle fish and when he, the fish, wound up asking as far as about that super saiyan blue, had they truly had they finally like mastered god ki? And wiz was like no, they said they're nowhere near having mastered god Ki whatsoever. They just finally got a stepping part into getting a control onto it. And that's what Super Saiyan Blue is. It's the fact that it's just the beginning step of them kind of getting an understanding of what God Ki kind of is, and I love the fact that we get that chance to really show when.
Speaker 1:I said earlier we were like yeah, you obtained a form, but you're still new to it, so you still got exactly things to learn. You still got ways to learn exactly, and they knew that.
Speaker 2:And then I love the fact that this is also the first. You mentioned that this is we'll get a lot of firsts. It's the first time we see vegeta in super saiyan god form and not just super saiyan blue um you had a chance to really see it and I love that one because it was a true.
Speaker 2:A lot of people really diced this fight up into the fact of Super Saiyan Blue is essentially almost like the Super Saiyan 3 of God Ki, where it has an extreme outburst of energy and they can use it to harness it and stuff.
Speaker 2:But the thing about it is is the fact that truly trying to harness that is that it gives you a big buff in power, but it does kind of it drains you faster. So we get a chance of seeing vegeta masterfully switch between red and blue, red and blue. Whenever he's trying to fight broly, like when he's attacking, he's attacking in blue. But when he's trying to fight broly, like when he's attacking, he's attacking in blue. But when he's trying to evade and kind of like, think out a strategy to avoid that continual drainage of keys which is the red, and then he's like, okay, you know he's balancing it out, going back and forth, back and forth and back and forth, really showing, uh, vegeta's prowess and his growth when it comes down for his fighting. So it was a really great thing to kind of that. I wound up seeing onto that as well too in this movie.
Speaker 1:You know what's crazy, like going back into the Granola arc and, by the way, sorry if I'm like spoiling things for y'all, like because you know at this point the Granola arc been out for a while. If you haven't read it, then I'm like I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you, but it's really funny how, in parallel in the Granola arc, it's where Goku's still trying to learn Ultra Instinct and Vegeta Gives him some advice, where, like hey, bro, like you're still trying to Use Ultra Instinct While using your base form, why don't you like Access your Super Saiyan form? So that way you can like maintain the form a little longer. So it's like in the opposite direction to where, like with Super Saiyan God, it will be easier if you are like Super Saiyan God versus Super Saiyan um. Super Saiyan, um, god Blue, god damn it.
Speaker 1:Uh, blue for Saiyan blooper sand um, it'll be easier if you were just super sand god versus super sand blue. Uh, in the other way around with ultra instant, it would be easier if you access your super sand form under ultra instant rather than just raw dog in it.
Speaker 2:That's the weird part for me so they did actually have a brief kind of explanation onto that and it's actually one of the one of the ones where ultra instinct is very similar and it'll say very similar in this regard to the spirit bomb. So, goku, if you ever noticed, goku never uses the spirit bomb whenever he is in super saiyan form. The only time he did was when he was fighting Boo, but during that time, remember, he didn't activate Spirit Bomb in Super Saiyan form. He turned Super Saiyan while he already had the Spirit Bomb active and threw it at Boo. But it wound up having an effect where there's a whole big theory into it because it hasn't been fully explained into it. But there's a whole theory in the fact that the only way to access the spirit bomb is by having pure of heart. That has been explained.
Speaker 2:And when Goku harnesses his Super Saiyan form, super Saiyan form is a rage form. The thing about it is is that, with Saiyans being so constant about power, they're emotionless beings. Most of the time they don't really care about trying to harness that emotional power. They just want to be stronger themselves. But when they harness that emotion of anger, it gives them the Super Saiyan form, because every single time they transform. They have to harness the anger in their heart, harness the pain of loss. You know things like that until that got changed to the tingly on the back. But we're not going into that, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1:Oh, another moment from the Granola art to where, at this point, I'm like I'm probably gonna mention it again when we get there, because I probably forget, uh, when we get there. But, um, another part to where, essentially, between the switch between master, older instinct and ultra instinct sign, to where Goku can't use Uh, a whole, not a whole bunch of techniques. In other words, it's like when he's in Master Ultra Instinct, his fighting style has to be like Calm and you know All that shit. He has to keep a level head. But when he's in Ultra Instinct Sign, he got like access to Ultra Instinct but he's still able to fight like normal. So it's almost like he has to like completely change up his fighting style in match to Ultra Instinct versus. You know, it's like that. It's crazy how these forms work.
Speaker 2:No, not my bad, and I realized I was taking a long time in my theory. I'm so sorry. That's actually the point that I was trying to get back into was because, like super saiyan harnesses emotional things, in order to use the spirit bomb he has to be pure of heart. He cannot harness an intense amount of emotion like that. He has to be able to fully relax himself, which is the same thing that winds up happening with ultra instinct, which makes sense as why it is the spirit bomb is something that only king kai could teach him. Only a kai, a god, could actually teach how to use the spirit bomb, because you have to have a pure heart to be able to do so. Same for ultra instinct you have to be fully relaxed and kind of laxed into it to be able to fully unlock it. So in that regard, he can't actually like.
Speaker 2:There's a whole theory thing into it that he actually cannot access Ultra Instinct while in a Super Saiyan form, because it harnesses. He has to harness the power of his emotion. He has to give in to his emotions. In order to be able to use those form, versus to use ultra instinct, he has to utilize inner peace, the relaxation. Your body does it for you. You can think about it sometimes, but the thing about it is that's what sign is. Sign is you think about your point, but he allows his body to act defensively while he thinks on the offensive, his body to act defensively while he thinks on the offensive.
Speaker 2:But with Master Ultra Instinct, his body reacts to offensive and defensive on his own. He relinquishes all control to his body. It's just a natural reaction onto things and canonically, there is only one thing that gets past Ultra Instinct. Well, actually, no, technically, if you haven't fully matched it, it drains your body. So yeah, you know losing the form, but while in Ultra Instinct, there's only one thing that canonically can get past Mastered Ultra Instinct and that is biting your opponent, which has been proven because literally, it's the only attack that Goku has ever gotten off. Whis in the entire series, manga and anime is literally when he bit him. It's the only time Whis ever took any type of damage. Wiz was, like you, animal.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's one of those moments where it was such a dumb move that he didn't see it coming. Even his own body was like hey, bro, I didn't even know he was going to fucking bite us.
Speaker 2:That part I thought he was kind of thinking his attack out. I didn't think he was in this type of danger. That's different. This boy's on some other stuff, man.
Speaker 1:It's like your body didn't regress. It's like having Spidey sense, but it's like, oh well, we didn't know he was going to fight us, Maybe like a punch or a kick I was expecting that or a blast.
Speaker 2:Crazilyaisen. It's all still within the same realm of things because of the fact that, like in all of those abilities it has, it senses danger and a lot of times when someone biting you unless you really kind of see it happening type of thing you don't instinctively think of that as a dangerous thing. Not from a human being, you would see that from an animal. If an animal attacks you, you're naturally scared your animal, that animal is going to bite you. That's an instinct that you know from, you react from. But when you have someone that your brain, you've trained your brain to believe, oh, this person thinks calculatedly, they're not going to do an animalistic attack. And when they pull out an animalistic attack, all of they pull out an animalistic attack.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden you're like wait a second, that wasn't I'm not thinking about it that kind of what makes spider-man 29.9 a little scary. To where? He has that, uh, venomous bite, but it's like other spider-man. Probably wouldn't expect a spider variant to bite people who you know exactly.
Speaker 2:He's not even a spider, he's a bat variant. It's a whole different thing. Anyway, sorry, um, but no, it's um. But yeah, it's one of those moments like you really kind of um focus into how the fight sequence goes, where we have like, I just don't think, even when you mentioned that, it's just one of those ones. I don't think.
Speaker 2:And because of that theory and I kind of do back into it, I kind of believe it, I have seen enough evidence to back into it I don't think he can go ultra instinct, even sign. I don't think he can do that inside of a super saiyan form. It's just not physically possible for him to do so. The only way for him to truly be able to do this is pretty much over exert and then maximize his own base, because when you're in ultra instinct form, your body fully realizes this potential of his base power. And that's one of the things that also made it so scary is the fact that Goku technically had the base power way back in the Terminator power arc. He had the base power to fight Jiren. He actually had it, but he didn't know how to properly harness it. And that's where, once you get Master Ultra Instinct, his body harnessed it to its fullest, extinct. I'm going to make one more comparison and then that's the last thing I'm going to mention.
Speaker 2:As far as into the fight and I definitely want to hear what Talos has to say as well too is the fact that, going back into what happens with Bleach, there's a whole thing into it of when ichigo first went his bankai form. When he first went bankai, he was in as the whole thing about it, that he was actually fat. He was not only if he was proven faster, he was much, much stronger than bank, than um, than byakuya was. But the issue was because he had not really trained that form, he had not been fully familiar with that form yet. What winds up happening is is that his body caved into the power and even white wound up, mentioning that too. It's like look at you, you said you don't even know how to use your own power and it's destroying you, and that's where it became like a big thing into that and that's also, I think, what happened.
Speaker 2:Big thing into that and that's also, I think, what happened for goku. It always happens for goku whenever he goes into ultra instinct. It maximizes his full potential, but because his body doesn't. He can't handle it and he's always growing himself, making himself stronger and stronger. He'll never be able to fully handle his full max potential because it's going to always destroy his body while he's building it back up again every single time. But otherwise, I think that's one of those things for Broly. I think that's where it becomes a major thing for him is that Broly is always pushed to his maximum potential and he stays in maximum mode all the time. He just keeps growing and growing and adapting and learning as he's fighting.
Speaker 2:That was a theory bro, he's adapting.
Speaker 1:It's like damn he's learning on the spot Shit.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. Goku and Vegeta had to pull back to balance themselves out. He was like nope. Every hit, I calculate. He literally became the Amazo of the Dragon Ball universe per se.
Speaker 1:He adapts on the go Like cast master to where, like okay, I pretty much figure out your moves and shit.
Speaker 2:That part, and it's like you gotta keep changing up your fighting style. You wanna try to handle me, bruh? Nope, you didn't change it up fast enough Time to get the hashtag. That's what I really want to hear, what Talos definitely has to say. That's all that I got to say. I love the movie. It's fantastic. I obviously love the fight scene. For me it was more enjoyable to watch. I can't really describe it. It was one of those ones that is just fantastic to watch.
Speaker 1:I just don't know how to describe the fight that will give it justice. So I'm like tell us I'll give it to you how you feeling.
Speaker 3:Alright. So we talking about the entirety of the fight In itself. I loved it entirety of the fight in itself. Um, I loved it. We gonna, we gonna put it like that I loved it. Um, I'm gonna say this, though, relatively, like the way I see it yeah, kogatsu, you are absolutely correct. I mean, he basically does look like he was the Amazo of the Dragon Ball Z universe, or Dragon Ball Super universe, for that matter. That aside, I'm going to say this the fights, relatively, when I go back and look at it, the fights relatively could have been done better.
Speaker 3:When I first saw it in the movies, oh shit, I was like, oh, oh, fuck, yeah, this is it, we are at peak. But after going back and looking at them again, I was like, okay Now. But after going back and looking at them again, I was like, okay, now the glasses are off. And now I'm actually critically thinking. I can see where they could have done maybe a little bit better. They could have done a little bit better with some of the fight scenes In particular, especially with the whole thing how they basically because of what they showed, there was a rumor going around that there was a super saiyan green you mean when they flash the rainbow colors?
Speaker 2:because we shown up, got green and, if you could, really pay attention.
Speaker 3:You got a little bit of purple in that too, like you were flashing the rainbow colors, and it was like, oh my god, okay. So yeah, I see why. And it was like y'all, y'all y'all kind of trolled a little bit.
Speaker 1:That was, that was yeah, that's what I was talking about, to where I like the possibility that, oh uh, apparently the legendary super saiyan form is an exclusive to broly.
Speaker 3:I'm like yeah, that's how they were saying that.
Speaker 1:It was like yo, what the fuck because I was trying to get used to the fact that, okay, some things are born with like different cells. Apparently, like you have like ace, um, these super like type type B, type C, whatever, and like apparently Broly has a type of sales where, like that's how you was able to get that Super Saiyan form, and I was like, oh, how come it's green? I was like, because it's legendary. Y'all like, oh you so fucking cool.
Speaker 2:Team 4 star did fantastic on today. I no, I fully see onto that and also, look, that's one of those ones that you can really point out. It can be considered a plot hole if you really want to dive into into that. I don't really care too much, to be honest, but the whole thing of goku's parents were scientists, remember, it wasn't just his dad mostly his dad is well known for it but his mom too. They're scientists. They're like extremely intelligent Goku does not. That came as like the biggest shock into it when you're like, oh, his parents were scientists, his parents were super intelligent.
Speaker 1:Imagine that Scientists by day, planet conquerors by night yeah, partner, I'm like, okay, that's an interesting daily flow that you got. Y'all ever got time for dates, or shit. I mean I can tell that y'all made two boys, so y'all must be making some time for each, or shit. I mean I can tell that y'all made two boys, so y'all must be making some time for each other. I was like, okay, wow, yeah, yeah, what were you saying, gugges?
Speaker 2:But no, it's like oh my bad, Go ahead, talos no no, no, you're fine.
Speaker 3:You're fine, like legit as far as it goes. Like when I was looking at it, like I said after looking at it for the first time, yeah, I literally am like okay, I see where you could have done better, I see where it's at a little bit, but at the same token and process, the fight scenes are still good. I'm not even going to take that away from you. The fight scenes are still freaking awesome.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, like honestly, I would feel like, let's be real, a lot of things could have been done better. But honestly, overall I'm like you know what. For once, I didn't fully hate it, or to a point to where it didn't feel like 50-50 for me to where I'm like, okay, some bits I really didn't like, like 50 50 for me to where I'm like, okay, some bits I really didn't like and some bits were like okay, ish, it was like mostly hype, but like it was like a 80 20 thing to where like, yeah, you're gonna expect some sort of flaw, like inconsistency, like something that's gonna fuck up the uh continuity of the whole franchise. But overall it's a movie where it's like it's fun to watch and almost hard to hate. At least in my opinion. Y'all got anything else you want to add on to the movie Because, honestly, I'm spent.
Speaker 3:Nah.
Speaker 1:I'm good. You're good, alright, well, well, that's how we feel about dragon ball. Super broly, I still stand by what I say. I would give it a solid eight.
Speaker 1:Um, I would say like uh, on that rate, I would say nine, but that feel almost no I'll, I'll let it slide, because, like, if I say as a fan it would have been a solid 10, but as a critic it would still be a 9, because, like, there's some flaws when I'm like, yeah, they're there.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to pretend they're not there, but overall, I still love the movie Enough to where, like, I can look past them. Um, the next part of the Dragon Ball Super Extreme Review. Well, we pretty much already said it in the beginning, but once again, it's going to be covering the manga at this point. So I'm warning y'all, for real, this time, once we get into the next part, we're going gonna be talking about the manga, and if you're not a manga reader, then I would highly suggest you read that manga or just avoid the next part, because superhero is made to move. So, um, y'all can listen to that one, but, like the manga bits, I'm like, unless you might want to wait for the anime adaptation and I don't know when the fuck that's oh, what can I say other than Get back to us when you do the manga?
Speaker 1:or Finally, see the anime adaptation Whatever the fuck that comes, but until then I we're gonna go ahead and head up out of here, so take it easy.
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