Zealots of Nerd Entertainment
Zealots of Nerd Entertainment
Young Justice vs. Teen Titans: Teenage Drama, Team Dynamics and Character Analysis
Can the portrayal of depression in an animated series be both authentic and compelling? Join us as we uncover the layers of character dynamics and development in DC's Young Justice, contrasting it with the iconic Teen Titans! Kali Hakaishin brings her fervor for DC's animated universe to the table, dissecting the intricate relationships and growth of characters like Robin, Aqualad, Kid Flash, Superboy, Miss Martian, and Artemis. We highlight the profound impact of pivotal events such as Kid Flash's disappearance and dig into Beast Boy's leadership journey and the nuanced portrayal of his depression.
We scrutinize missed opportunities and the show's inconsistencies—like the lack of emotional payoff in Beast Boy's reaction to Superboy's return and the complexities of Miss Martian’s evolving appearance. Black Canary’s therapy sessions offer a window into the team’s personal struggles and the potential for deeper storytelling that the series sometimes fails to fully embrace. We also critique the overwhelming introduction of numerous villains, which can detract from character development and make it difficult for viewers unfamiliar with the comic lore to connect.
From the anticlimactic resolution of Kid Flash’s feelings for Miss Martian to the handling of Roy Harper’s storyline, we leave no stone unturned. We also contrast Robin’s leadership styles in Young Justice and Teen Titans, noting how each series handles his relationship with Batman. Our discussion extends to the portrayal of Starfire in Teen Titans, juxtaposing her simpler arc with the more complex narratives of her teammates. Tune in as we express our frustrations with Young Justice’s storytelling while still celebrating the series for its compelling moments and overall enjoyment!
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what's good nerds? It's jet black extreme and we're back at it again with another episode of the zone podcast. Today we're gonna do something a little different now. You're familiar with cali, high cash and our resident therapists in the zone and you remember how we were doing teen titans a while ago and we concluded with that and we're thinking, like you know what.
Speaker 1:I kind of want to talk about young justice. But let me be honest with you. Diving back into with young justice got me having mixed feelings to where season one I liked it, but after that I felt like the quality went a little downhill. For me, uh, this is mainly going to be a character analysis of the of the both seasons, both um series, because that's my main gripe with young justice and I want to talk about how the way teen titans was carried out. They did it in a way to where that less was more like I'm. I'm gonna dive into it more, but essentially it's gonna be more so a young justice review. But let's be honest, it probably can't be helped that we're probably gonna talk about teen times a little bit too. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and zone in on it. Callie, uh, how did you feel about Yee on Justice as a whole.
Speaker 2:Well, I've always had really strong feelings about DC animated series. I've even talked about it with my husband before. That I've always enjoyed. I think DC does a great job on animated stuff, like I've watched through it every single one of the um like HBO, all of the DC cinematic, not cinematic universe, all of the um animated universe stuff where it's doing all the Batman, superman, the flashpoint paradox, that sort of thing. And I think Marvel does a better job at um, at live action stuff.
Speaker 2:So when I saw young justice start to come out or like debut on cartoon network all those years ago, I was really excited for it and you got all of your core heroes. Of course robin's in there. We actually get to see aqua lab, which is called her on um. You see kid flash. We eventually have um super boy, connor kent, come and join us. And then we get two girls, we get um miss martian and we get artemis, and so those are the core six that we start out with. They're, of course, since it's young justice, they all start with their teenagers and stuff like that. I think the youngest was was Robin, because at one point he did become the leader. And they're like why does Robin get to be the leader. He's the youngest one out of all of us. I think he was like 13 or 14. And, of course, since they're kind of like teenagers, I think the oldest may have been Aqualad at maybe about 18 years old. So there's a pretty good five or six year gap between each one of them.
Speaker 1:If I was Robin to be perfectly honest with you, callie I would have been like uh, excuse you, I've been crime fighting before you even got your powers. I'm the son of Batman.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean this is Dick Grayson, he's the original Robin, so he's been dealing with everything since I mean this is Dick Grayson, he's the original Robin, so he's been dealing with everything since I mean he's been part of the crime, fighting or having to deal with trauma, I guess I should say from a young age, because I mean his parents were killed when they were part of the Flying Graysons and I mean that's how he became kind of adopted and became a ward for batman.
Speaker 2:But anyway, um so yeah, young justice has a really special place in my heart. I mean they did like the first two seasons and I think it ended up finishing up with I mean spoiler alert kid flash, I think, dies at the end of the second season because it's invasion and he has. He literally like disappears into thin air. And so, as time goes on, we're kind of growing up with the cartoon characters, because once they decided to, once hbo picks, picked up the series that's when we start getting into nightwing. There's the new, newest generation of um kiddos joining the young Justice team or the team or the outsiders, with Beast Boy being the leader, that sort of thing that was uh.
Speaker 1:I want to say you know what I kind of like that move right there to where, like Beast Boy leading a team, huh yeah, I mean it was a little bit rocky at first.
Speaker 2:I mean well, I should say when he first started to get into the thick of it, because I mean, if I, if I remember correctly, I mean when he was really starting to become the leader. That's when everything happened, with um McGann and Connor trying to get married on Mars and they thought that Connor had died. And so poor Garfield Logan, poor Beast Boy, went into a deep depression, which I thought was it was really heartbreaking. But they did a very, very good job of kind of exemplifying what depression can look like, at least for one specific person, because depression can present in different ways in different people. Some people eat too much, some people don't eat a lot, some people don't sleep, some people sleep the entire day, that sort of thing. And I mean, as far as Beast Boy, he lost interest in being a crime fighter. He just kind of stayed in his room, he was becoming very irritable. At one point, I think, his girlfriend Perdita broke up with him. The Queen I can't remember what the name of the country is, but the Queen they broke up because he just wasn't into having a relationship with her anymore, because he was so depressed At one point he was taking sleeping pills. So that I feel like, for as far as like a, I guess, a kid show, I would probably say more like a. I don't know what the rating is on the show. I know it's probably not 14, so it's probably at least y7, so it's probably at least seven years old uh, excuse me, kids, seven years of age and then older. But I feel like they did a really good job of showing like different things that have happened to people, especially exemplifying mental illness, like depression and grief, especially with McGann trying to deal with it. Everybody was dealing with grief in their own way, especially when Kid Flash died as well. Some people took a step back as well. Artemis took a step back because she and she and Wally were involved, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So I actually have a really big soft spot for Young Justice and how they kind of handle the characters. Some things I think still could have been fleshed out a little bit more for a few of the characters, but they do. They try to do a solid job of like having their own like focus episodes, I mean towards, towards the end, I think in the fourth season of what's it phantoms, they kind of like that first part with um, connor and mcgann, and then they each kind of have like their own little arc, like okay, here's something with zatanna, here's something with um with rocket, here's something with m McGann, here's the team at the end trying to bring Connor back and finally get married, that sort of thing. So they I think they approached it giving like character focused, character focused episodes really well at the end.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they're ever going to try to renew it for a fifth season. That'd be pretty cool, but I feel like they've ended on a pretty good note already. But the first and second, renew it for a fifth season, that'd be pretty cool, but I feel like they've ended on a pretty good note already. But the first and second seasons did take some time. But a lot of that was more action. It was less character exposition and more. Okay, we're dealing with what was it? Who are they fighting against in the first and second season? I just re-watched it.
Speaker 1:I know it was like they called themselves the Light. It was like a whole Rose Gallery of people. That's right, With Vandal Savage and all of them.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right, but that's just kind of like my brief overview of the series of Young Justice as a whole.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like see. Overview of the, the series of young justice as a whole. Okay, okay, yeah, like see, that's the thing. Like I did, like young justice, I just hated the way it seemed like they had something going on with the characters, like you said, and I want to say the concepts that they were having. To where, yes, beast Boy was Distraught when Super Boy was killed Well, supposedly killed, he actually Was in the phantom zone, which, by the way, I was kind of laughing at Just a little bit, because just imagine this to where, okay, season four was phantoms and it's like essentially Everybody was dealing with Some their past, you know, like ghosts, know that kind of symbolism going on. But if they, I swear to God, if they titled this season Young Justice Ghost and then they were like, okay, superboy is not really dead, he's in the Go zone.
Speaker 2:Nah, they had to do the phantom zone Because of what does this mean? Zod, there you go.
Speaker 1:Also, I don't know, I don't know how to feel about they kind of uh re-swap zod, which where I'm so used to him being a white guy, the fact that you know, with aqualad I'm like okay with aqualad, I gave that a pass because nobody really think of aqualad that much, except for in young justice, where that's how Aqualad as a character kind of like uh, stuck for me in a mental capacity. Um, but with Zod, you know Zod, and I'm like he's a black guy now. I mean, I'm not mad at it, but just huh, that's how it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was surprised, I was like huh.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know, surprised. I was like huh, okay, you know, okay, but um, where were we? Uh, oh yeah, I was saying that beast boy was so depressed that he was just napping on everyone, um there. And then the one thing I didn't like about on the whole thing with beast boy being depressed about Superboy is that when Superboy does come back, you don't see a scene to where Beast Boy is glad to see Superboy is actually alive. It's just more like you had something going there but you didn't give us the payoff that we were looking for.
Speaker 1:That's the thing is where you will set something up to where, like with Miss Martian, her whole thing being a white Martian and everything, like she was hiding that secret.
Speaker 1:She was even getting kind of dark, like between season two, season three it was like she was getting kind of dark in the head, but then it was like she was getting a little better in season three and then she kind of fall back in on season four just a little bit, fall back in on season four just a little bit. And, by the way, I also found it kind of strange, um, with the change with, uh, megan to where it was like originally she had the green skin, the orange eyes, the orange hair, and that's fine, whatever. And then she had the haircut in season two. That's fine too. But then, uh, the part where she now was rocking the white skin with the black eyes, with the orange irises, it's almost like, yeah, she's still a good guy, but it's almost like um, the lines are kind of blurred to where it's almost like um, I don't know, I just can't help but think that, um, sometimes with particular look, you're just thinking she has a little villainous element in there.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know what it was, but it's almost like with the design, it's almost like intentionally to where she might still struggle with her white Martian nature and you know, like she's still kind of afraid that she's gonna use her power to truly hurt people, even though a bunch of times she was like eavesdropping on her own teammates using her tele, um, not telekinesis, telepathy, um, and a whole bunch of other shit, and to a point where like okay, uh, there's like this little struggle there, uh, whole point being is that the main reason why I brought you on here, callie, is that I want to say technically twice but the second time was just with beast boy, but there was the therapy episode to where the team and that's the funny part too, they were trying so hard to not be, uh, the team titans that first of all, the whole show is called young justice and second of all, the team is called the team.
Speaker 1:so it's almost like we know this is the team titans, but you just don't want to say it yeah but, um, my point being is that black canary was being like a therapist for the team to figure out where their heads at, what's going on with them, and everybody had their own shit going on to where, uh, robin feels like, um, he is trying to live up to this expectation of leadership. Aqualab feels like, eh, I don't really feel like I'm um, this leadership, um business isn't really for me, but then again I don't think that I should give it to robin right away. And then you have super boy with his issues, uh, miss marshall with her issues, kid flash with her issues, artemis with their issues they, they all got issues and I kind of like that to where it's like they feel like characters. I just really wish that they would focus more on those issues like when the uh, you know like strike while the iron's hot to where. Don't make it so disjointed to where we know that they're going through something kind of like with the whole episode. Uh, megan going to see her childhood hero and, um, you find out that bombshell to where uh turns out she might have this secret that she's hiding from everybody else and queen b was um blackmailing her and shit kind of like. Focus that on that a little bit more, instead of like spacing out to a point to where we'll probably get some more payoff on that later on, or maybe not, but that's the problem.
Speaker 1:It's like you got something there but then you don't commit to it. That's the main problem for me, other than other than that. I kind of like it, but then you don't commit to it. That's the main problem for me, other than other than that, I kind of like it. But I also don't like how same thing with the villains. They throw so many fucking villains at us, but they don't give us enough time to actually feel something for those villains, unless you are already a comic book fan. So, in other words, I would say that I wouldn't recommend young justice to someone brand new to comic book um culture.
Speaker 1:I would recommend young justice to people who already, uh, seen shit like the justice league back in the day, or they already seen teen titans or static shock or whatnot. If you're already in the know, then, yes, you can go ahead and give young justice a chance, because chances are you already know about these characters, so you don't really these characters, so you don't really need to know. Uh, you don't really need to be taught what these characters are about because you already read the comics and whatnot. But my, my whole thing is is like with Teen Titans. Teen Titans to where they focus on five people. Um, they did introduce Terra, of course, but point point being that for a while they focused on the main five and at least you feel something for those characters with their centric episodes, like whether it was robin with his obsession with slave, whether it was cyborgs trying to come to grips with being a half robot, raven with her daddy issues, starfire trying to fit in with the world, beast boy um trying to uh cope with his trauma with um jokes. It's like you feel something for these characters right there. But with these characters and young justice, like, yes, you want to feel something, for there's something there, but if they actually committed to it and like focused arcs within the seasons, it would have been much better. But I just feel like y'all had something, but y'all were dropping the ball here and there. That's my whole thing.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, I can't be too mad at Young Justice. I still have a soft spot for it too. It's just that, like I said many times on the podcast, I don't mind criticizing the thing I love and I don't mind giving credit to where credit to do, when, even when, I feel like the show, movie, video game, whatever is total dog shit. If it does something right, I will point it out. But that's the whole thing. With nuance to where, just because you have this soft spot for this thing doesn't mean that. Okay, I did notice the flaw. Yes, that's valid and whatnot. I'm gonna talk about it. But other than that, I'm gonna also talk about why I still like the show, regardless of the flaws. That's pretty much where I'm at. But, um callie, how do you feel about the way the therapy episode was carried out?
Speaker 2:Um, I would say just with having my experiences, um, both as a client in therapy because I have been in therapy as a client before, receiving like services like that and also being on the other side of it, being the therapist. There's, I do think, that black canary I can't remember exactly what they said her like, uh, what the words, like qualifications were like if she was just more like a counselor, kind of like a guidance counselor, peer counselor that sort of it's more like that, yeah, I was like I don't think she has a degree because I couldn't remember something exactly, but anyway, the way that they handled each of the teams coming in and talking to her is kind of exactly how clients would talk.
Speaker 2:You have some that are more willing to talk and open up, some that aren't, some that aren't quite there yet. They do have something that they want to say. But there are some people, when they come into therapy, usually that's a sign that they want to seek help for what they're dealing with. But there's still some, still some memories, still some parts of themselves that they're not willing to confront yet or talk about. And that's still perfectly OK. There's some. There are some things that you can talk about in therapy and other ones that people still don't feel comfortable with. I mean, that usually takes time, which is becoming comfortable with your therapist, that sort of thing, being able to tell them like, hey, this is what's going on. This, that sort of thing being able to tell them like, hey, this is what's going on. But people, when they come to therapy, think that they have to be an entirely like open book.
Speaker 1:You don't have to be, you can tell me, or it's never that simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's literally. It's more of you. Don't have to tell me everything. It's more if you can talk about anything in here. That's the best way to put it. And so when black canary was trying to talk to the kids and ask them, you know well how are you dealing with this. How are you dealing with um? I think the context was after kid flash had passed, or was it because I know the second time was when um connor had passed, or what they thought he had passed was that was the first time after kid flash had passed away?
Speaker 2:uh with super boy I don't know, with um, with with kid flash, what was the first um, what was the first reason why they went into therapy?
Speaker 1:I just I'm trying to recall oh, um, it was just the main things where, uh, they were having dysfunction within the team. You know, it was like a team building in season one, yeah, it's like. It's more like okay, y'all have potential, but not only do y'all need to like work out your own issues, y'all need to work better as a team. It's really more like uh, all right, let's just work out the king. You know like with young just I'm not young, just my bad justice league and the avengers to where there weren't always a cohesive team up front. It's more like they had their issues and they had to like work it out at some point. So it was more like one of those things okay, that's what was okay.
Speaker 2:I wanted to make sure I wasn't like conflating the two.
Speaker 1:No, no yeah, just working out in the team.
Speaker 2:That's all like I said, that's one of the things I mean. People can come in for family therapy and usually when you're providing therapy to a group of people, the first thing to do is blame it on one specific person. Okay, it is this person's fault while we're in this situation. Okay, robin can't be a good leader, so it's his fault. Well, I'm not the one who can't control the team. I'm not the one who can't control the team. I'm not the one who's technically leading the team.
Speaker 2:It's. It's aqualad, oh well. It seems like artemis was hiding things, oh no, but it seems like mcgann was hiding things and connor has his anger issues. So a lot of the times when people first come in with either like group therapy or family therapy, that sort of thing, the first, like I said, the first inclination is to point fingers. But one of the things that I've learned, at least the way that, um, the way I understand therapy is that there's no true one person is at fault. It's more about accepting responsibility, the the term that, um, it always starts with you first yeah, the the term that I learned in um in school was relational responsibility.
Speaker 2:It's not so, like I said. Okay, it's this person's fault like you're the reason why we're coming to therapy, like, usually when it's a family it's like a mom and a dad and a kid it's usually the placing the blame on the kid. Well, okay, you're saying that it's the kid. It's like a mom and a dad and a kid. It's usually the placing the blame on the kid. Well, okay, you're saying that it's the kid's fault that they're like this, but you're the one who's also raising them. So how did they learn how to do this? That sort of?
Speaker 2:thing, so it's. I don't even want to say it's sharing the blame, but understanding your part and how you've contributed to what's happened, that's the best way.
Speaker 1:Accountability.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But I say there's just so when I'm trying to remember everything about that specific episode. When everybody's coming to see Black Canary, I think she gets pretty close to it, but it's still more individual focused. I would have liked to have seen more. Okay, well, let's kind of meet all together as a team and let's hash this out all together like in the same room, because you can do you can do family therapy, but with an individual, because somebody, if they're dealing with something in their family, you can do that.
Speaker 2:But the best what's the word I'm looking for the best scenario is being able to hear everybody who's dealing with the problem or dealing with the issue, because it's not even okay. I'm going to take this person's side about it. There's just more context, because this is one person's point of view and it's not wrong, but it's the only story that we have. So hearing multiple perspectives gives a much clearer picture about what's going on. So if Black Canary had been able to have all of the kids, the core six come in and talk all at the same time, I feel like that would have been a better representation of trying to do team building and getting to the point of the problem and trying to hash things out, but that probably would have been way too chaotic for the animation studio and trying to figure something out in 22, 23 minutes, not including commercials. So they did.
Speaker 2:As a therapist myself, I would say that they did a decent job, but it still could have done better. But I also understand, like I said, production issues and just trying to make sure they they what's the one before. What needs to be part of the narrative is what's is what's included, like in the, in the episode, that sort of thing. So that's that's how I feel about the way they approach therapy, or at least team building exercises and stuff in that specific episode.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I feel that Now that I remember there was a couple things about the characters that I also wanted to point out, to where, like how I was saying I don't like how they would go somewhere with some characters and then they just don't commit to it later.
Speaker 1:For starters, how Kid Flash was so obnoxious about his feelings for Miss Martian, but you know, miss Martian and Superboy end up hooking up. But then I hated how he was celebrating his birthday, like he came in time to have his party and what not, and then he Artemis, made Kid Black see that Miss Martian Superboy is a thing and it's like I mean I'm kind of glad that he didn't like get super angry or some shit about it, but he just feels more let down and it just kind of feel like there's no falling action to that whole thing, to where he it's almost like they don't really even uh, acknowledge it anymore. After, uh, he finds out that, um, miss marshall is the voice of things. That's the weird part for me. To where it's like, uh, y'all kind of built this whole thing up, to where, uh, maybe they will, maybe they won't, but even then it's like it felt a little anticlimactic in that area. That's just one thing. Uh, another time where I felt like y'all had something going, then y'all just kind of um dropped it at some point to where, I think, with the whole roy harper uh arc to where you know uh roy was uh abducted, he had his arm chopped off on the clone and all that.
Speaker 1:And the thing was y'all going somewhere to where um clone harper uh was trying to figure out who's the mole and everything, even um accusing artemis, because you know, artemis has sports master as a dad and uh sports master the villain. So he kind of uh assumed that, oh well, uh, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so you might also, you know, cheshire being uh artemis's sister and also a criminal. So it's like, yeah, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're the mole. But that wasn't the case. In fact, clone harper himself was the mole, but he just didn't realize he was being controlled by vandal savages and whatnot.
Speaker 1:Uh, whole point being is that by the time uh green arrow find out where the real roy harper is, and clone harper, all that, all the shit, uh green arrow and clone uh Roy, they just pretty much get phased out the story at this. At that point it's pretty much like the original uh Roy with the new arm callings of arsenal, and even then I'm like he's kind of doing some shady shit and sometimes to a degree I feel like, especially when he had like that five o'clock shadow and the longer hair, I'm thinking, bro, you look like a drug addict. I'm sorry you do. And um, that's funny too, because in the comments he actually was. So take that as you will.
Speaker 1:Um, speaking of drug addict, the whole thing with uh even though it's not a strong allegory for it the part where Superboy felt like he needed those patches that Lex Luthor was giving him in order to unlock his full powers, because he felt like he needs to be more like Superman, even though Superman don't even really acknowledge him, as you know how it is, because Superboy was genetically built in a lab and whatnot, so it's not really his son. But at the same time it's not like he's the best at inspiring Superboy to be a hero and whatnot. It's almost like he's ashamed of Superboy to a degree. I don't even want to look at him.
Speaker 1:I'm like, bro, I get it's not really your responsibility, but I mean he does have your DNA, at the very least to teach him how to be like half human, half Kryptonian. Come on, dog.
Speaker 1:You know, but the whole thing where he feels as though he gotta live up to this expectation, kind of like um with robin, with um batman, uh, but oh yeah, before I forget why, I would say another comparison to teen titans, robin and young justice. He doesn't mind going to um batman for certain things. Uh, it's not often, but he does. Robin and teen titans, man, I was still laughing my ass off at the part where kokugatsu and I would say that this dude went halfway across the world to somewhere in asia to find this master to teach him how to be a stronger fighter. Meanwhile you're the son of batman and yet it's come clear, if you know comic book lord, to where uh, dick grayson at some point get disillusioned by batman, just want nothing to do with him.
Speaker 1:This is the version of robin. To where, bro, I would go halfway across the world than to see that man, he did not want batman telling him shit, it's like, uh, I can't. I can't tell batman that I'm failing, I can't tell batman that I'm slacking, like uh, he's gonna be on my ass about it. I can't have that, especially when I just love to do it. I'm trying to um, this is the part of my life where I'm trying to distance myself from batman, that's the whole thing, to where you don't really notice that at first in Teen Titans. But if you know the comic book lore, you understand why Robin would try his hardest. That's why he had that obsessive obsession with slaves, where he wanted to prove himself that he was good enough without Batman. That's the main thing. And with this version of obsession with slates, where he wanted to prove himself that he was good enough without batman, that's the main thing.
Speaker 1:And with this version of robin and young justice. It's like, yeah, he's trying to be a leader, but he he's so used to the way things work with batman that he underestimated how things work with other people. Just like how, and uh, the first couple episodes where he just where robin does the batman thing, to where he just mysteriously disappeared without explaining the plan to the rest of the team. You're so used to the way things work with batman that you don't know how to relate to people outside of the bat family. So that's why I'm saying it's funny how, at least in the Teen Titans Version, robin had to learn how to be a leader, more so In that one. Because, yeah, he has, he's looking after four people. But at the same time it was Like for the most Part, they trusted His leadership With the team.
Speaker 1:In Young justice they were like, I don't know about robin, just like how you said kelly, like hey, man, first of all he's the youngest, second of all, he doesn't have power, so why are we following him again? Yeah, but yeah, um, I just feel like there's just some things where, uh, young justice, I want to say it's like Teen Titans, but edgier. But once again, aside from sometimes where I just feel like y'all were going somewhere with some things. And you know what? I'm kind of pissed off how y'all just now adding Static Sock into the mix but y'all gave him almost nothing to do, like that was pretty much with a lot of these characters like uh wonder girl and whatnot, to where, uh, there was just a whole bunch of shit going on, and I really hope there's a fifth season going on because I kind of want to see how things go with uh dark side recruiting supergirl and black mary at Furies. And I still remember I only remember Mary from the second Shazam movie to where I'm like, okay, that's Mary Marvel, and then it's like okay.
Speaker 1:For some reason she's now on the bad side because Zatanna being, like this, mentor to three people, for some reason, keep forgetting. I'm sorry, it was a lot of shit going on, but uh, whole point being is that, uh, I feel like satana just didn't trust mary enough, I guess, so they decided, you know, just switch teams. So like, oh well, y'all think I'm such a bad egg I might as well join the bad team. There was just a whole bunch of shit going on, especially with Aqualad and his relationship with the girl and his friend, and blah, blah, blah, and I'm like I like where y'all were going with all this shit, but I just kind of wish it was more focused, that's all. But aside from that, I kind of like how there's like some familiar names Voicing these characters. Like, for instance, I did not know that Allison Stoner Was Batgirl, or that Mae Whitman was like Wonder Girl and Spoiler like Troy Baker was, or that Mae Whitman was like Wonder Girl and spoiler like Troy Baker was Prince Breon.
Speaker 1:I'm like, hold on, like I had some pretty good people voicing these characters. Tara Strong was Tara. Zeno Robinson was Cyborg. I know who was that guy Corey Payton. He was not only Aqualad, but he was almost every black dude except Cyborg. I'm like, yeah, y'all got some pretty good acts. So yeah, from a voice acting point of view, y'all were doing pretty good. I felt like it was fairly serious, like it kind of made me feel invested in what was going on. It's just more like I just wish the execution was a little better. That's pretty much it, but honestly that's really all I got on Young Justice.
Speaker 2:Really Y'all got anything you want to add on.
Speaker 1:Let's see, not just Young're unjust, but, uh, team titans too, in case.
Speaker 2:uh, I know you weren't there for most of team titans, so perfect opportunity to get whatever you want about team titans off your chest before we close this out um, yeah, I mean there's there's a couple things with team titans when I was going back and like looking at the wiki page and everything I I kind of picked up on when I was a kid that like each season was kind of focused on a specific character, um, and I mean there are five seasons and if I remember right, I think it's, I think it's each of the core five get theirs besides Starfire, I think.
Speaker 2:Terra is technically season 2, and I was talking about that with my husband and I was like how shit is it that Starfire doesn't have her own art but fucking Terra has one. And I'm like, yeah, terra's like kind of the sixth member, but we know all about her, all of her issues, that sort of thing. And of course that also occurs in Young Justice as well, with having Slade. And when I say Harley, my husband and I were also talking about how, excuse me, that the comic books with the whole Tara Deathstroke slash Slade relationship is actually really, really icky and I always thought that it was kind of weird in the Teen Titans stuff. But anyway, that was one of my main gripes is that they didn't give Starfire and Dark we did.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was just going to say I know we kind of talked about it already, but like I still say that, to be fair though, starfire did get a whole bunch of episodes dedicated to her, and also yeah, she did and also, well, this is what they say, but they say that Trouble in Tokyo was supposed to be Starfire's moment. So if she didn't get a full season, that last movie, was it a movie? Because honestly it didn't feel like a full length movie, it felt like a TV special, a little like one full hour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was only like an hour. It wasn't even like 90 minutes or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah it wasn't like a full length movie, it was more like a TV special. So, yeah, uh, the tv special was supposed to be about her and um her like romance yeah, that was pretty much it, but like, but also, yeah, she did a whole bunch of episodes dedicated to her, so, yeah, I mean she had the one with her with her transformation.
Speaker 2:She had the one with. With silky, she had the one. I would count her sister the prom episode and the one with her sister. I was just annoyed like there wasn't like a designated season for her, but tara had one. I mean I think beast boys was the was the last one actually, and of course we know ravens with um ra's with the whole Trigon thing.
Speaker 1:But then again, like I was saying in the beginning, the reason why I can't be too mad is because Starfire's art was the most simplistic. She was just trying to fit in and the whole thing with the transformation and all that that pretty much incorporates to her whole art, to where, yes, she's a fish out of water, she's the only well aside from raven, but like that's, uh, she's more like a demon, but, um, she's the only alien on the team and she's like she's trying to fit in with earth culture and whatnot. So it was like her arc was the most simplistic but it was like, uh, aside from, you know, black fire and all that, yeah, uh, she didn't need all that. In fact, starfire was such a solid character you know how she was so cheerful and whatnot it's like she was set up to be like a flat character art to where in fact is.
Speaker 1:She was one of those characters where more people should be kind of like her, in a sense, where she has like this childlike wonder and shit going on, uh, this bubbly personality, this friendliness, this glow to her. So where it's like she was for the most part was a solid character on her own, so she didn't really need a whole art dedicated to her, like, not like the way they did robin or, uh, cyborg and whatnot. By the same time, they kind of sprinkled it in because, um, you're gonna give her a little bit of character development, but she doesn't need a whole lot yeah, I can see where you're coming from with that, yeah, but um, let's see um.
Speaker 2:But I guess then that was my biggest crap with teen titans. But I said I enjoyed young justice as a whole and I understand with the leader dynamic with Robin and Teen Titans and Robin and Young Justice, because I mean, like I said, I think Robin is the youngest in Young Justice, I think he's only 13, maybe 14 at most, and I think in Teen Titans he's about middle of the pack.
Speaker 1:Beast Boy was young in that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, like Robin was like he's like the middle child. I think he was the youngest. I would say maybe him and Raven are about 16. No, raven ended up turning 18 in the fourth season, but Cyborg was 18 and probably Starfire is about 16 or 17. So if Robin's not the middle of the pack, he's at least second youngest, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:And so it was interesting because Harley and I were talking about how it's interesting that with Teen Titans you don't really see. You see like adult villains, but you don't see the other, like Justice League people come in. So it's interesting to me that you know, usually you hear the seen but not heard. I think, with in terms of at least Batman, he's heard but not seen, because you know that he's like an underlying presence. Like you know, if Robin's trying to figure something out, batman's probably there. He's just kind of implied, like we know, robin is robin because of batman, but he's not. They didn't put any of the uh, any of the limelight on batman at all. They were trying to show how capable robin was as a leader by himself, which I actually really, really enjoyed, enjoyed, you know what.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, but you know what you reminded me of, how there was this one time with Robin and Slade to where Slade was trying to set him up to be kind of like a father figure to Robin an abusive father figure, mind you. But, Robin said this one line that kind of was kind of cold and he was like I already have a father. And then you hear the Batman theme going on with the bats flying. He didn't say it, but you know exactly who he was talking about.
Speaker 2:Like I said, he's heard but not seen. I remember when they did it because I think, like I said, I think they do the Batman sound and then I think bats literally fly by or something like that, just to show that's implied. That's probably one of the coolest moments, I would say, in the Teen Titans series, just because you kind of get the chills, you're like, oh yeah, they're talking about Batman, like that sort of thing. But anyway, so I like both of the series for their own individual reasons. Like to me, teen Titans was definitely one of those that we watched when we were younger.
Speaker 2:I think when it came out in I think it was like 2003, 2004. So I was only about eight or nine years old. But then Young Justice started to come out, I think 2012, 2014. So I was already at least in college by that time and so, like I said, that's why I like it. With Young Justice, we were kind of going up with the characters. As time goes on, and even with having like the third and fourth season picked up by HBO, a little bit more of a time skip happened because time had moved forward. I think they did a time skip of less. It was either three to five years.
Speaker 1:I'm Kelly. I'm sorry, but oh my god, you just. Oh, this is what I hate about season two, because they did a five year time skip To where, oh, superboy and Miss Martian broke up and all this other shit happened, whoa whoa, whoa, hold on. Can y'all like, explore, expand upon this? Like that's a whole bunch of shit that happened, that we didn't get to see, and then Roy and Cheshire had a child.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also, um, that's a whole bunch of shit that happened that we didn't get to see. And then Roy and Cheshire had a child, yeah, and also, um Brockett also having a kid, but then again that's much later and, um, I know, but I'm just saying like Y'all throwing all these Developments at us when I'm like Whoa, hold on. Can we at least get some context, like can we at least see, like in a flashback or whatnot, what happened to where it's like okay, why did they break up? Why is this and that happening?
Speaker 1:And I'm like bro, I can't sometimes with this show, see. That's why I was saying that okay, as much as I still like Young Justice, they did do some shit. That kind of pissed me off. But that's it. I'm honestly done. You had anything else Callie?
Speaker 2:No, I think that's the core of what I wanted to talk about with either of the series, just to kind of wrap both of them up.
Speaker 1:Okay, fair enough. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that'll about do it for us. Thank you for listening to us. Uh, you can follow us on social media. Uh, just remember to stay nerdy and that great things are coming. We will be zoning out of here, so have yourself a good morning, good afternoon and good night.
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