Dragon Ball GT: The Xtreme Review

Ever pondered the quirks of the Dragon Ball GT universe and Goku's baffling return to a childlike state? We've got you covered! Our latest podcast steers you through the labyrinth of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc, questioning the missed opportunity of utilizing Earth's Dragon Balls as a handy solution. We tackle the enigma of Goku's character development—or lack thereof—across the series, dissecting the Saiyan hero's journey from a mature champion to a perplexing return to childhood in both "GT" and "Super." Join us as we scrutinize the influences driving these narrative choices and their impact on the beloved franchise.

Prepare to have your understanding of Dragon Ball GT's canon status thoroughly shaken up. We confirm GT's place in the official lore and speculate on how Dragon Ball Super could potentially iron out the timeline wrinkles. Our conversation navigates the choppy waters of inconsistent character arcs, especially Vegeta's power struggles and Baby's complex identity. As we analyze the intricate relationships within GT, we also reflect on how elements like Super Saiyan 4 could be deftly stitched into the Dragon Ball Super narrative, enriching the saga even further.

Wrapping up, we unleash a Super Saiyan level critique of GT's character designs and narrative inconsistencies, comparing the series to its predecessors and successors within the Dragon Ball universe. While GT may have had its ups and downs, it's an indispensable chapter in the epic Dragon Ball story that has captivated fans for generations. So, whether you're a seasoned Dragon Ball aficionado or just dipping your toes into the Saiyan waters, our podcast promises a kaleidoscope of insights and laughter as we bid farewell to GT and tease the exciting explorations ahead in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back with Dragon Ball. We haven't been doing Dragon Ball in a while. Because we did Dragon Ball, we did Dragon Ball Z and you would think, oh well, you know, just roll right into Super Right, right? No, we gotta do GT. So what I further do is go ahead and zone in on that.

Speaker 1: 0:33

For starters, with the Black Star Dragon Ball arc, it is 16 episodes of them just dicking around trying to get the Black Star Dragon Balls. By the way, when they found the Dragon Balls in the first episode something peculiar about them, you know, having Black Stars and some of the usual red stars on them the game decided to just switch on those. Anyways, turns out that it's not their usual Shinron, but Shinron with like red scales and all that looking a little scarier than usual. And the condition of this is that I believe it was kind of like all the Super Dragon Balls, but like not that powerful. But it's like the possibility.

Speaker 1: 1:21

Whatever you can wish on these, on this Dragon, is like there's not that many restrictions, but the condition is you have to wish on the Dragon within one year's time or your plan is getting blown up. So the game got a scour across the whole universe to try to find these Black Star Dragon Balls. But, um, Koki, I got a question. Would it make more sense for them to find the Earth Dragon Balls and wish for the Black Star Dragon Balls to just show up, gathered together right beside them?

Speaker 2: 2:01

So yeah, that's a big plot point into it that a lot of people question. So first thing to keep in mind is remember Dragon Ball GT. To start as fan made, toriyama wound up getting more into it during the baby arc. So this whole first arc we really not having Toriyama here much at all. They got the rights to the fans, literally the person got the rights to be able to do this and it was like, okay, we'll see what happens, type of thing. Of course they get this person rights and we get this, but then you know, they wound up getting on Team Four Star just for making a parody. But whatever, it's a good one Another time.

Speaker 1: 2:39

It's funny because I heard there was like this interview to where when they were talking about the Black Star Dragon Ball arc, they were like we don't really know where to go with this one. It's like you know we're just rolling with whatever sticks.

Speaker 2: 2:56

Pretty much, and that's exactly what happened. It was a pitched concept and they would just kind of see what would happen, type of thing. Because pretty much the essential thing is this they needed to get people up and moving, like there has to be some type of major plot point in the story. There has to be something that drives the story. There has to be a reason for the hero or heroes arc to be able to go out and actually do something. Let's just do what it is. So we got to figure out what is that thing that they're going to go out and do? Like what? What is the motivation? And so then we get this introduction to oh yeah, there's another set of Dragon Balls called the Black Star Dragon Balls, but we don't talk about them and it's like oh, okay.

Speaker 2: 3:43

So then all of a sudden because you know we're trying to get back into the roots of Dragon Ball as well too Emperor P-Lop shows back up again. He's trying to beat never beat the confrower of the world and shit. He doesn't understand what the risk of the Black Star Dragon Balls are either. So it's just like whatever? And he's just like I'm going to make this wish. Then Goku shows up and he's like ah Goku, darn it. You're more annoying as an adult as you send your words a kid. I wish you were a kid again. And then you know. Not, dark Shinra, I forgot what it's called. I forgot what the specific name for this dragon is actually that much, forget it.

Speaker 2: 4:22

Fortunately, but I would say, and Ron, yeah, yeah, but he, he wants to be like your wish has been granted. He's like no, and then then Daimist Pub will freak out and they're like no, he was never supposed to make a wish on these Dragon Balls. Like what happened? If you don't get these Dragon Balls back, the planet is going to be destroyed, like the fuck what. We only have a year time and it's like it's the most anime trope, like there's so much anime like cartoonish trope that you could like throw in.

Speaker 2: 4:56

It literally makes no sense. It wasn't. It wasn't supposed to make sense. Like, in all honesty, it was just supposed to be something that got them up and moving. So yeah it. It had no idea what the fuck was supposed to happen. Main thing is they even came up with the name of it Dragon Ball Grand Tour. People remember there was a whole argument between GT and Grand Tour. But the dude that actually made this, that made the soundtrack, that soundtrack made the opening song. I forgot that rapper's name. I don't remember who it was, but he literally was like yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Coming to the Grand Tour. Grand Tour, grand Tour. Okay, I did it, yeah, and he said literally, he was like I don't understand why people argued it. He's like I was literally told GT stands for Grand Tour and you need to put in like so we can like hype it up for the show. And he's like, well, shit, okay, I'm going to just put the name in the song and there we go, it's going to be the hype. And so he was like why is people so confused? If it's called GT? And I kept saying Grand Tour, grand Tour about the whole rap, that's because the name is fucking Grand Tour. Like I'm understanding.

Speaker 2: 5:55

It's like I don't know, but it was supposed to be like they, they about to go to a tour to the universe, they need to go explore other planets. There's other planets out there besides Yardrat and Yardrat and Planet Namek. But here's the thing about it, I would be honest Dragon Ball Z, that little adventure with Krillin, bulma and Gohan trying to find Planet Namek, and all the crazy wack ass adventures that they went on, those filler episodes because those were filler episodes were significantly more entertaining than the first arc of Dragon Ball. Gt, the Black Star, dragon Balls, them trying to go to all these different planets. It's like they had great concepts but they felt executing like horrendously yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:43

Because at least with Z, when they were going on their adventure, it felt like it had a purpose. But with GT it was more like, yeah, they were trying to recapture that same charm that Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball had. But no See, I think that's the main problem with Dragon Ball to where as a whole, you know as a franchise, to where they had something brilliant in the earlier installments and then they just regurgitated in some form or fashion later on. And sometimes it's great. I know we're not in the Super yet, but I don't know if I'm going to even mention it when we get to Super.

Speaker 1: 7:33

But the part where Goku was preparing for the Tournament of Power and he was at Bobo's place and he was practicing with the same moves he used against Grandpa Gohan in the Dragon Ball Joe, where you know he was, you know, first meeting Bobo, I had that whole little tournament tour thing. Okay, that sort of thing. That's a good knot towards the previous interiors. You know that was a good. I liked the way they did that one. But when it comes so obvious and heavy handed that you want us to like, relive the nostalgia in a way to where it just seems like you're just not even trying to give us like something new to latch on to. Then it just kind of becomes more obvious that they weren't. I won't say they weren't trying, but I'm just not impressed by what they did there.

Speaker 2: 8:36

It's true In other parts, you know that's true and realistically it's looking at aspect is a fact that Toriyama did say remember at the Majin Buu arc when they first started, before he came up with Majin Buu and the Majin and stuff, originally it was supposed to kind of help start over with Gohan being the main character, but fans was upset so he continued on Goku. So in this fan made it was like okay, everyone still wants Goku, but we still kind of want to do a start over. I want to do what Toriyama was trying to do and start over.

Speaker 1: 9:07

I remember what it was. One of the main reasons why they reverted Goku back to a kid and decided to make Goku Trunks and Pan go out into space rather than, you know, taking the adults with them, is because they were supposed to go back to the times where, you know, with Dragon Ball and you know, kids having adventures, you know, kind of like Pokemon in some sense. It's like that, to where, like, essentially, they were just trying to do something that they already did, but in a way to where they're trying to appeal to a younger audience, like a reboot or a younger audience in a way. But I know it's not exactly a reboot, but I'm just saying like, spiritually it'll be like oh, it's just like Dragon Ball, but different. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:54

That's all I was saying is that it wanted to be in a callback. They purposely had it set up, yeah callback.

Speaker 1: 9:59

That's why.

Speaker 2: 9:59

Yeah, it was purposely set up to, not even as a callback, really, it was supposed to really be kind of like, not necessarily a reboot, but going right back to the beginning, Goku gets turned back into a kid again. So just back, like back in Dragon Ball, we had Goku the kid. You know, we had a kid Goku, who is immensely powerful, but because he's a kid, his powers are one, or walkie, which they wound up doing at the beginning, which they wound up doing honestly throughout GT, and the fact that, like, because he was a kid, even though he could wind up still going, super Saiyan is Super Saiyan two and Super Saiyan three. Those are multipliers of his current power. Because of the fact that he was thrown back into a kid, his power took a major cut. So going into Super Saiyan, super Saiyan two, super Saiyan three will only bring him up to somewhat par power that he would have had had he not been turned back into a kid.

Speaker 2: 10:48

So it was made to do a purposeful restriction into that and they did kind of and Goku did explain that in the show. He was like me, being a kid is different. He says like he says literally, aside from my brain being different, that I mean, I still remember everything, but like, obviously he has more child like antics and is a reasoning for it this time except because that's one of the biggest things that people's upset about in Super it's like Goku just became a man child, but in this one, like he is a child, he actually has a child brain, so he can still think things through, but now he actually has a child brain so it's a hindrance to him.

Speaker 1: 11:23

Oh, I was that. That's the funny thing. I was thinking about that earlier, but I was thinking it was more like nah, it's more like he always had a child brain, but now he has the body to compliment it. I mean, I mean, he's not that child, it's well, in a way, he got like that child, like wonder, and he is a. He's still a little ignorant, let's be honest. He's still a little ignorant, so like he's a little childish, but it's not like he's totally immature, but it's. It's. It's kind of there. He's still a little childhood, though.

Speaker 2: 11:56

He's going to be very honest and saying, okay, goku and Dragon Mouzi, goku and Dragon Mouzi, super Goku and Dragon Mouji, to your three completely different gogo's, just absolutely completely different gogo, just being honest, man. But I get that he does still have some childlike. Yeah, it's supposed to. But there was a maturity that Goku had by the end of Dragon Mouzi, after defeating Majin Buu, after we get a chance to see who that there was a maturity that he had and that no longer existed Once we got to super in GT. But they were trying to at least say, you can say there is somewhat of a reason that it happened in GT is because he got turned into a kid. So now, like you say, yeah, the body matches the brain, type of thing versus a super. There really is no explanation. This is just. The explanation is that we're trying that literally Toriyama and Toritara are really trying to like move on from Goku and Vegeta. Like this, how it feels at the time, like it really feels, like look, can we really want to move on?

Speaker 1: 13:10

Like, listen, like Vegeta was supposed to die in the Frieza saga, Goku was supposed to die after, you know, saving, you know defeating the Frieza and all that shit. It was going to be Gohan story, but we had to, like you know, because y'all like these characters so goddamn much, we okay, fine, we'll put them in like two more arcs and two more saga. Okay, are we done? Are we done with Goku and Vegeta? Can we let them move on, please? No, we want more.

Speaker 2: 13:39

It's like. It's like Giga and Lurie Giga with the Jujutsu Kaisen. He just told the fans fuck y'all, kill Gojo. He's like that nigga is not coming back. Literally. There's so many different references Like. I've seen so many articles Like oh Gojo could come back and like Giga said that nigga is not coming back.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Like you saw that take talks where essentially Giga said in a minute in a interview that his inspiration for Jujutsu Kaisen was Akame Gakue. I'm like, well, there you go.

Speaker 2: 14:08

The anime, not the manga too. So yeah, specifically yeah, the main character is gone, it's dead. Now he's dead, that's it. There's no coming back for this, oh man.

Speaker 1: 14:18

You know what? I'll wait until this review.

Speaker 2: 14:21

We'll wait till we get there. But yeah, but no, it's like see a Toriyama wound up catering to fans. It's like, okay, well, the fans want this and we're going to just do what the fans say, and da, da, da, da. But you know, some people don't. But yeah, it's like it is one of those things where it's like he really wanted to move forward but it just didn't happen. So, but the fans wound up saying, look, we want to continue to start with Goku, we're going to make our own. So we have Kit Goku again, as we do have Kit Goku in Dragon Ball again.

Speaker 2: 14:50

Like I said, overly powered kid who has, like, immense powers and shit. Only difference is that you know, this Goku is a little bit more mature. Every now and again he can still have mature moments, but again that kid brain is a hindrance to him. He winds up like having childlike antics and there's a lot of stuff he can't really fix. That. That's probably the only good plot point that actually happened in the first arc is that literally, goku is battling this all the time, but you can literally see him like he's trying to be mature.

Speaker 1: 15:21

But it's all wait. Okay Now, I'm sorry for interrupting, but now that I think about it, it wouldn't make sense for Goku to have some maturity to him, because, think about it, Like all three of them can't be like childlessly incompetent, you know, because see, not to restmate Trunks in pan. But let's just keep in mind that in GT, Trunks has it's just now becoming a teenager. At least I think he's a teenager by now.

Speaker 2: 15:54

I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm gonna be very honest with you. This is gonna be funny as shit. Okay, cause people have done this comparison. Okay, trunks in super right now, the current Trunks Okay.

Speaker 1: 16:05

The one that's a little bit harder. Are we talking about like manga or?

Speaker 2: 16:10

Manga.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Manga or okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Yeah, so manga. Yeah, yeah, so manga. The current Trunks right now, who's just a little bit taller, but not like quite super tall yet, is older than the Trunks in GT.

Speaker 1: 16:28

Wow.

Speaker 2: 16:29

Just keep that in mind on that Whoa, hold on.

Speaker 1: 16:36

No, you know what? Fuck this, fuck this. Okay. Remember when they said that? Okay, if it's not perfectly clear by now, they said that, as of in this timeline of events, gt is canon. They are not reputing this. And you're telling me that Trunks in super is older than the Trunks in GT, but GT comes after super.

Speaker 2: 17:10

That's like this different timelines bro.

Speaker 1: 17:12

No see, that's why I said my theory is alternate timeline, that GT might have taken place in an alternate timeline. It does, yeah, okay, that makes more sense now.

Speaker 2: 17:25

Because one of the things that keep in mind is that some of those timelines wind up augmenting Like, keep in mind, onto this I'm jumping ahead just a little bit, but we do want to get introduced to Trunks's sister, bola. Okay, keep in mind when it is that we got introduced to Bola in super and when you get introduced to Bola in GT. The most memorable moment of Bola is Vegeta going shopping. This is like the beginning of the baby arc Vegeta going shopping with his daughter. She is a full grown ass teenager. Damn, you're a full grown ass teenager. As far as, like, we put that timeline together in super, bola should already be a teenager by this point, but she's only just now been, only recently just been born. It's only been a couple of weeks. It hasn't been like a few years. She's still a kid in super, but as a teenager in GT.

Speaker 1: 18:22

When comparing those timelines, but also keep in mind that supposedly everything that happened in Dragon Ball Super took place in between the 10 years between Kibu being defeated and Goku meeting Ube at the tournament.

Speaker 2: 18:38

Exactly so there's a whole bunch of differences into that. So, yeah, like different timelines cause different, different events to happen. That's the only explanation you can really have into that. Just in the fact, like how you can say, like even in DC not DC and Marvel how you're able to see two characters exist in the same timeframe of their timeline but still look and act completely different, like, for example, no way home. But just be realistic onto that one and that one.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Keep in mind all of those Peters were supposed to be pulled from their different timelines but not in different times. They were pulled from the same time period that they were in. So Tom Holland, as Peter Parker is significantly younger than the other two, then told him a choir, andrew Garfield, but they all were at the exact same timeline. But they're all Peter Parker, the same Peter Parker. You see what I mean. But they're all different ages. One is literally a fucking full grown adult who's been married, been divorced, one who's a rambling college student and one who's just trying to find a way to get into college, just fucking graduate of high school. But they're all pulled from the same time period, not like from the same exact time period, like the date, the time and everything was supposed to be the exact same, but yet somehow another, all of them are born in different times. You see what I mean With all the same person. That's kind of just how that works, like when you're going into multiverse theory, into different timelines.

Speaker 2: 20:23

There's timelines that exist at the exact same time as yours and the sum that acts in different times than yours because different events happen that led to those different situations. It's going to be the only explanation I can give you to make sense of why it is that the age difference and all of that shit is so different in GT and in Super. Because also keep in mind on this too, is the fact that, by this point, trunks and GT is tallest shit. This nigga is like almost six foot. He is only like five foot Two or something like that is super right now Completely different, completely different. So it's like there's so much to happen, there's so much difference to happen to that.

Speaker 2: 21:14

So, yeah, as far as like saying it happened in between, yeah, for that time period, that time line, has a different events that led to different situations. Things happen at different times and because of that, shit goes different. Right now, we probably like what super, I think. We're probably like I think five, no not even five, like three years or something like that. We're about like three years with super. All that can be condensed down and you say like what 10 years between Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT? There's supposed to be a 10 year difference, but we're like what, three years now with super. You see how that just does not really quite add up, type of thing.

Speaker 1: 21:55

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like bro, like, see, see, y'all doing too much. Now Now to a point away. Okay, you're adding GT to the timeline. You are now over complicating things. And speaking of over complicating things, can we talk about this arc here with the Black Star Dragon Balls? Where? How about?

Speaker 1: 22:19

When they do try to go out and get the Black Star Dragon Balls, they go. They come across all types of characters, like this Catfish Dragon type dude. And then there's these dancers in the unitars and you come to find out, okay, one of them stole one of the Black Star Dragon Balls. You know the game got to go get it. And then, next thing, you know, you see all these different characters that you swear to God, oh, they must be the final boss, like they must be the big boss with all. No, it's always some bullshit right afterwards where it's like okay, we defeated the bad guy, so can we have the Dragon Ball now? Like no, there's another bad guy, they're like a fucking witch doctor. And then there's the whip that turn into this whip monster. And then there's this, this dude with a fucking I won't say Karen, fucking is like this soccer mom, like here.

Speaker 1: 23:21

I don't know, I'm sorry. And then you have fucking Dr Mew. Who would like fucking Dr Jerome if it was like a paradise Pokemon version of it? And then you come to find out that Dr Mew was developing baby. Who is actually the one who was like, oh no, I'm not the one, dr Mew is not the one who created me, I'm the one who created Dr Mew. And it's like fucking, it's like Dr Jerome. All over again to where. How the fuck the even implant your own brain into your body. How do you even do that? And then okay, I'm not going to go too deep into that point being is that after that? Then you come to find out that baby is basically a parasite with. But oh, okay, give me a more thing. People wanted to jump on.

Speaker 2: 24:19

That's what's up, oh there you go.

Speaker 1: 24:30

What's up, gentlemen, oh?

Speaker 4: 24:32

man.

Speaker 2: 24:38

JB is going on a full rant about the whole Dr Mew, dr Jerome situation.

Speaker 1: 24:43

No, I just didn't like how okay all these different villains and I'm like you just introducing one after another to a point where, like this convoluted chain of events where it's like can we just get our Dragon Ball back, please? And then you know, they got fight this giant robot, baby shit. And what is going on with this art dog?

Speaker 4: 25:11

So what it sounds like is that you didn't like the way Dragon Ball GP was going.

Speaker 2: 25:20

I didn't sound and it didn't feel like it was really going anywhere. To be honest, it felt like it was dragging out to the next episode.

Speaker 1: 25:26

It's the first one, not with his first arc, though, it's like it felt like they didn't really know what it wanted to be. But once you get introduced to baby properly, then it's like okay, okay, I'll listen to what y'all gotta say. Now that's all I'm saying. Like it's like one bad guy after another bad guy and you trying to figure, okay, who's the boss of all this shit, and it just oh.

Speaker 2: 25:53

I feel like I found a fantasy all over again.

Speaker 1: 25:56

Pretty much.

Speaker 2: 25:57

You'd be one villain. You'd be like oh, but my master is the one. Who is the one behind it all.

Speaker 3: 26:03

Yeah, gt was all about Goku, bro. They didn't care about nothing. This is Goku, so marketable.

Speaker 2: 26:09

True, oh, so really quick. Let me just do a quick catch up for what we were specifically talking about. That kind of led into this, Because we're talking about how the beginning of GT is supposed to be an absolute callback, albeit trying to be some type of copy, of what the of how a story could have been for Dragon Ball per se. What I mean by that is we have kid Goku again, who is, you know, super main character. He's immensely powerful, but extremely childish, and we wanted to having an actual reason for him being childish, because everyone complained about Super in the fact that Goku's even more childish than he was in Dragon Ball Z, like he got dumber and it doesn't make sense versus in the fact that in GT, goku did actually explain that because he's in a child's body, aside from the fact that he's gotten weaker and now his Super Saiyan Super, super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 forms are just forms he has to go into in order to become somewhat on par with how strong he was back when he was an adult. And then the fact that he's has mentioned as well that he's having to battle his child like mine, that he's like, he has some maturity. He still remembers that he's an adult but when he looks at things he's looking at things as a child again and it's very difficult for him to comprehend that. So a lot of times he wasn't reverting back to childish antics, and it's not that he necessarily wants to do it, but it's more of his body is just doing that because he has a child's brain again. He has a child's brain with more knowledge, but it's still a child's brain nonetheless. And how this was affecting him throughout the story, throughout.

Speaker 2: 27:47

Like the first art, because we're specifically focusing on just the first art. We've made mentions of baby, but we haven't actually gotten into that arc specifically yet. And also the timeline comparisons, how the timelines are complete, absolute bullshit. And how technically the Trunks is super is older, like in the manga right now, is technically older than Trunks is in GT, but then not, and it's just absolute, nonsensical confusion and how that works. We just kind of breeze bad as that one because, like you know, there's no real explanation into that. The only example I gave was like how in no way home with a Spider-Man in the fact that all those Peter Parker's were pulled from the same time period of their timelines but you have one that's been a full grown as adult that's been married and divorced, one that's struggling college student, and Tom Holland who's trying to get into college and just fucking graduate of high school. But all of them exist in the same time period of their timelines but all are still completely different ages because timeline events are just all different.

Speaker 4: 28:56

Let me fix that for me at least. Okay, cool. So here's the thing, people. As we all know now, gt is canon. Gt is as much as it's supposed to be as canon. Wait a minute what you say?

Speaker 3: 29:09

Yeah, we were just talking about that.

Speaker 1: 29:12

I thought it was North cannon. Yeah, it's been candid to 2017. Like they would say, that was correct.

Speaker 4: 29:22

That's correct that it has not been candid since 2017. It was on the fence since 2017. It became canon relatively in 2023. That's when it was officially made canon. But, however, before and now it was on the fence because, hey, super Saiyan 4 showed up in heroes and such. So they were like what is the possibility? It's probably going to happen because the heroes is just showing up in there. That's probably going to show up everywhere else. So, yeah, that's when it legit got recognized as canon. Now, as we all know, super plays out relatively before the the for the incidents in GT. So, to fix the trunk issue, the trunks, as in GT, is little trunks, that's in super, not grown trunks that we see comes from the future little trunks.

Speaker 3: 30:22

The amount of inconsistencies and plot holes are of legend, that's the thing is right.

Speaker 4: 30:33

before you go into this and I say whole hardly to anybody If you're trying to connect it by plot and everything else in between, stop, because they're nine times out of 10 fixing to redo GT to make sure everything goes smoothly.

Speaker 3: 30:51

Okay.

Speaker 4: 30:52

Yeah, I got a question for you. Hold on, gt falls relatively in line. The current GT falls relatively in line right after Z, not after super, even though super is said to fall in before GT. If you're going to do when, you're going to go by a linear timeline, that's where they say super supposed to happen, but super can, super relatively can happen right now the way it's supposed to, until they fix GT Relatively can. It took how the main timeline is going.

Speaker 1: 31:36

Okay, tell us so on. So, with that being said, do you think that's what they're trying to do with Dragon Ball Diamond trying to fix GT that way, possibly?

Speaker 4: 31:45

That's a possible, that's one possible thing that you're trying to. That's one possibility you're trying to do. That's what a lot of us theorizing hey, this could be the new GT. This is basically how they're going to fix GT in the sense of the word and bring it full circle back into things. But the same time though I'm not looking for that reason being I'm not looking for it is because, as far as I'm concerned, it's still going to relatively be hey, this is super, but now we're just bringing super, saying four, into this thing. We're bringing aspects of GT over here. So that way, you'll know this is, this is how GT so quick question how they?

Speaker 3: 32:27

how they just gonna forget they could fly?

Speaker 4: 32:31

What do you mean?

Speaker 3: 32:32

They just they forgot they could fly. Well, that's the one thing I remember. They forgot they could fly. It was a whole bunch of plot holes. It was the inconsistencies go who turned into a little kid for no reason.

Speaker 4: 32:49

They forgot that they could fly. Because they forgot, they forgot they forgot.

Speaker 3: 32:54

Somebody had to mention it to them.

Speaker 4: 32:57

They they fly. They've always could.

Speaker 2: 32:59

Maybe that was like a third at one point in the story.

Speaker 3: 33:05

I'm like bro. I'm like bro, I know they could fly. Like bro, you just, you, just fly.

Speaker 2: 33:10

Yeah, I can only think of two reasons. One, they might have been on a planet that restricted that for some weird reason. Whether a change in key flow, yeah, or for like comedic effect, or like hey, did you guys forget that we could fly? Oh yeah, I forgot, it was supposed to be just a comedic thing, I remember.

Speaker 3: 33:27

I was like why, they just fly. You know, you could just fly right.

Speaker 4: 33:32

Was that like just for one episode, or something?

Speaker 3: 33:34

Yeah, I think it was just for one episode. It was in the beginning, though.

Speaker 4: 33:40

Like I said, that was for comedic effect. Yeah, proper community, if it wasn't like multiple episodes or something that was for comedic effect.

Speaker 3: 33:50

I would remember that I was like bro, I'm like, I'm not even watching this, no more.

Speaker 4: 33:57

And the thing about it is when you're saying that Goku was turned to a kid for no reason. That's false.

Speaker 3: 34:05

Goku was there. We had already seen big Goku, bro. We didn't want no little Goku again.

Speaker 2: 34:10

But that's the thing. So look, remember, just because we already recapped this, I'm gonna be real quick so we can try to move forward. My bad Um P-Love changed Goku into a kid by mistake when he hit the Black Star Dragon Balls. It wasn't supposed to happen. It wasn't the wish that P-Love wanted. He wanted to have war of domination and be young, forever young. But but the thing about it is is that he he wound up like getting angry. I was like God, this is a damn it, goku, I wish you were a kid again. And then the dragon granted the wish.

Speaker 2: 34:41

So but the point of it is just to be able to be a plot point for them, for the show itself. Remember the fact that the driving force is the fact they have to get the Black Star Dragon Balls back, otherwise the planet is going to blow up. And they have a time limit one year. And the hindrance is that the ultra powerful Goku, who could just use instant transmission and teleport to different shifts, and just it's so powerful he can go to each of these planets and bust them down like they're nothing. It's now hindered because he's in a kid body and, like I mentioned earlier, he has to now go Super Saiyan up to Super Saiyan 3, just to get to somewhat on par to the power that he originally had, because his kid body greatly restricts. So there is reasoning for it.

Speaker 2: 35:22

Was it best executed at the beginning? No, once we've got like further on, like once we get to baby, once we really got dive into the baby arc. Now is when we have a better execution of Kid Goku is he's heavily restricted and he knows he's heavily restricted, but he still has the responsibilities that adult power Goku is supposed to have and he's having to try to figure this out, which leads to the introduction of, finally, super Saiyan 4. So we get points into that. So it wasn't best executed in the first arc. I can agree on that. That was not. It was not best executed. But they can say that there was no reason. There was a purpose for it. Now, it.

Speaker 3: 36:10

You know they really needed. They needed somebody that could lead them.

Speaker 2: 36:12

They needed somebody like a captain and as the resident captain, I know I would have been able to lead them, captain, professor Tuck Ackerman third cousin on my dad's side.

Speaker 3: 36:24

He's had the word.

Speaker 1: 36:26

I promise to.

Speaker 4: 36:27

God, I promise Esquire Every episode. He has to mention his, he has to mention some new names.

Speaker 2: 36:34

I have to let them know that I am an.

Speaker 3: 36:36

Ackerman, I discovered it. I took a DNA test.

Speaker 4: 36:44

It's a ability to impersonate a military officer. It's a ability to impersonate a military officer. I want you to know that it was handed down to me.

Speaker 3: 36:54

You are not a captain. You are not a captain.

Speaker 4: 36:58

Oh, my God.

Speaker 3: 37:01

I am a captain and a professor and an Esquire, oh my God, you too.

Speaker 2: 37:06

You too. Look, let's get back into this real quick. So we've got a chance to dive into explanation for Goku. I really want to get a chance to explain a little bit more as far as my viewpoints into the purpose of Trunks and Pan.

Speaker 2: 37:17

Okay, so the reason so Trunks, it was of going back for Dragon Ball, where we had Bulma obviously you know being her son and she, but more so the fact that we have to have a Super Genghis who every now and again has to have dumb moments because he has a lot of book smarts is it does have more like common sense than everyone else but at the same time still occasionally fall short but is the leader for technically being the oldest technically in this aspect. So, literally, comparing it to Dragon Ball, that's what Trunks' role was at the beginning of the arc and that's one of the also main reasons why it felt very boring, because it's like it was better executed with Bulma, because of the fact that obviously during that time period, those jokes we was able to get by with a lot of those other jokes and stuff. It was obviously a lot of panty jokes and Goku slapping the pussy. We get that.

Speaker 3: 38:15

Fan service Fan service.

Speaker 2: 38:18

You can't get that with Trunks. It's just realistically. You couldn't get that with Trunks. There was no extra comedic effect. His comedic effect always lead to him trying to bring things back serious. So he was the person that was supposed to be like the captain in seriousness into it. But you're also supposed to be serving the role how Bulma was back in Dragon Ball. It didn't mix well. It was like you got to pick your poison. What are you going to do? Are you going to serve this role or are you going to be the serious person that keeps things together? It's like you, and if you're trying to be both, you have to be some type of balance, and there was no real balance into it. And quickly mentioning Pan, pan served the role that Krillin did. I'm strong, but nowhere near strong as the other two, but I'm still going to try my best to hold my own, while every night again being the damsel in distress.

Speaker 4: 39:13

Let's be real with you.

Speaker 2: 39:16

So I'm going to be real with you.

Speaker 4: 39:19

I don't see that. I'm sorry that can't be more so reversed.

Speaker 1: 39:24

Every now and then, like almost all the fucking time.

Speaker 4: 39:27

Like I'm sorry, I'm going to be real with you. The only reason why I say I don't really see this far is how Trunks is. Trunks, yeah, trying to be the leader, sure, but he more so served the Krillin role than Pan did Right, once again, this is just me. He served more so as Krillin than Pan did, in a lot of sense because Pan took on the Bomer role. Pan relatively took on that Bomer role. Like I'm talking about the goofy aspect of the Bomer role.

Speaker 1: 39:58

Yeah, true, the funny thing is and here's the funny thing about this Pan was being objectified subtly, but not on the level like Bomer in the way that we're used to, because think about it, you just said yourself would hold panties and panty shots and whatnot. With Bomer that was one thing back in Dragon Ball, but with Pan it's like different. You can't like sexualizer. But she did get objectified when we got to that part where she got made into a doll and that creepy dude with the soccer mom Herika, was like trying to keep him for a collection, whatnot. That's kind of how I saw it nowadays with my adult brain, because all I see what they're doing with this one right here, see, it's one thing to where she's supposed to be set up at the densel in the stress. So now she's literally being objectified in this episode, but again, that's like a weird way to do so.

Speaker 1: 40:58

And I'm like honestly with Pan. She's just a kid, so I don't know why you even go on that route with her anyway. So just to see, I mean, you still hold my GT came out. What 93?

Speaker 2: 41:10

Oh, great yeah, because that'll be like 90% of the time.

Speaker 1: 41:19

No GT, I think go out like 95.

Speaker 4: 41:23

95,. Okay, it's pretty much like the early 90s time period where it was like in Dragon Ball.

Speaker 2: 41:26

You could get away with stuff like that and just trying to see how that might go, okay, but yeah, I can see you on that, talos, and that actually makes it even to me and, honestly, even worse, because now it's just me, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like it's just more sort of fact. Okay, pan takes on the bone role and then Trump takes on the crillin' role. That makes it even worse. That just really mason, to the point where you do it when you're writing this, like what was really happening to this and it goes back to like JB had mentioned this earlier, before y'all had hopped on. It was the fact that even during the interviews they talked about the fact they really had no idea exactly what was about to happen. It was kind of a pitched idea and they started off and they was trying to see what would happen. It wasn't real.

Speaker 2: 42:15

Toriyama does get credit for helping out with some GT, but he doesn't really start getting involved until the baby art. That's when you actually like you can also feel that, okay, that feels like there's definitely more stories. It feels like there's some depth and growth into it and even though Toriyama was like he did not come up with the concept for Super Sai 4, but he does like it. He didn't come up with the full concepts into how is that how all the designs and stuff were. It has some more involvement during that time, which you can feel that there is a difference in that it does feel like okay, I feel like I'm finally getting back into like Dragon Ball again, like I finally feel like I'm getting into a story that I can follow and it's not just a bunch of random nonsense. Like I also mentioned earlier too, that the planet hopping the whole first arc literally back in Dragon Ball Z when Krillin, bulma and Gohan were trying to find Planet Namek, those filler episodes were significantly more entertaining than the first arc or GT.

Speaker 1: 43:22

And I'm seeing you thinking like that's a nice way to put it. I can only imagine Toriyama being like okay, we'll give you all a chance to do. This band made Dragon Ball Story 16 episodes and I'm like okay, bro, y'all need to let me in on this, because I can't have y'all be smirking my legacy Like pretty much remember that was the main reason.

Speaker 2: 43:48

The reason that he said he made Super was that GT was already getting questionable. So then, when Dragon Ball Evolution came out, he was like I do not want my franchise to be remembered like this, I don't want that to be the final taste that people remember of my series. So he came up with Super. So he and Toyotoro came up with Super. So it was like GT was a questionable point. Evolution was the absolute damnation. At the point that was like we need to do some shit. Hold on a second. They fucking up my stuff too much. It's ain't working, oh man.

Speaker 1: 44:28

Oh yeah, I forgot that while we were talking about all these different, this Rose Gallery of Villains that's trying to inconvenience the game I forgot that there was one villain that I thought was going to be the main villain, but he got sidelined real quick. What was his name? General Dildo. I mean General Real, though, right.

Speaker 2: 44:49

Oh, general Real. I do remember I did because they tried to hype him up for a little bit and then he was like absolutely like nothing at that point. That was pretty interesting. That was a pretty. It was the first point that I felt like we might been going somewhere. And then I was like you know what, maybe the series ain't worth it. I was like how do you get rid of a villain that you like I'm not going to say a good feeling, you can't say he was good, but it felt like it was probably going to be something finally Like, oh okay, we finally have something that we're sticking with. It's not just random hopping and shit. Oh, I got this dragon ball. You know, I get it. It's supposed to be the dragon ball adventure. You're supposed to be getting the Black Star Dragon Balls to save the planet.

Speaker 1: 45:29

He wasn't exactly a good villain, but he didn't feel like the villain of the week.

Speaker 2: 45:35

He didn't yeah, he didn't. He definitely didn't feel like the worst villains that we had already had at this point, like every other planet, was just like. It was one of those ones that I kind of looked like and just blow up the planet, take the ball and just keep it moving. It felt pointless into that. Okay, so we trashed on the first arc, but it'll just be realistic. It just obviously ends that.

Speaker 1: 45:58

But you just had to say what we got to say about this first arc, because really I want to say like, um, the first 16 episodes and then everything after it was just like 23 or so episodes. That's the real meat and potatoes, the baby saga, that's what we really hear for.

Speaker 2: 46:15

Yeah, that's when we finally get into something. Well, now we finally have okay, saiyans have been introduced. Saiyans are now a thing again because in this case we were just like, oh, they're earthlings and stuff. But now we're back to okay, saiyans are important now and we get an understanding of, oh, the Saiyans destroyed this planet. There was like very few survivors and now we want to have the introduction to baby, the genetically modified creature. Pretty much, we get a chance to be like okay, we're finally getting back to like literally, the androids sell and understanding why it is that they were actually a very interesting thread again, like bringing them back before super 17. We're not really talking about super 17 on this episode, but still it's just more.

Speaker 1: 47:01

You know what's funny about this? Even though GT came before super, it's really funny how we're getting this whole oh, let's get revenge on the Saiyans arc again. We get to super and get to the granola, the survivor arc. This is true.

Speaker 2: 47:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:17

A lot of people don't like the Saiyans, or take, you know, over there planning it no.

Speaker 2: 47:22

I mean when you're employed by Frieza to go to these planets and enslave them and sell the planet. Like that's just you. Obviously you hate them, you hate the person, but you hate the messenger too. Like that's just really what it is.

Speaker 1: 47:37

Hey, listen, listen, If, if the Saiyans was like the soldiers from the X-Men movies and essentially, uh, baby and granola is looking at, um, look at, the whole thing is like I'm going to get revenge on y'all. And then it's like wait, hold on. Um, they were just following orders. And like I've been at the mercy of men following orders never again. Pretty much that's what kind of felt like, where essentially like yeah, they were following the orders of Frieza, but then again isn't that always been the saying stick, Like isn't that always been the Saiyans thing to where we just take over planets anyways, Like the only differences were under new management.

Speaker 2: 48:30

If we're following to GT, there wasn't too much that was dived into that. It was more so the fact that yeah, sayings popped up in every other planet. It wasn't so much of a reasoning of why it is they did it Cause a lot of the sayings did just enjoy destroying planets, Like destroying the people. It took pride in it, Like the Viltramites. It's just kind of how it worked out. Um, I don't know. This also might be a good question for Talos. So you've been kind of I see it's usually you kind of like buying your time. You have something you specifically wanted to mention into this one.

Speaker 4: 49:07

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Get your points out. Like I said, when I go in, I go here, I go here, go here, go here. All right, all right, so we're okay.

Speaker 1: 49:19

So, essentially, uh, baby, um, was doing like big brain moves to where, okay, you thought that baby was undefeated when it got blasted in that incubator tube, but turns out that baby has been affecting, uh, a lot of life forms. In fact, funny enough, while Goku, trunks and pan was doing their adventure out in space trying to find a blast star dragon bolt, baby already made his way to earth and started infecting people to try to get to, um, earth's strongest. You know, gohan, vegeta, goten, by the way, goten with the fucking, uh, harry, good, trying to get the ladies and shit. I'm like, okay, goten, I see you man Trying to take out the young track.

Speaker 1: 50:07

Yes, but point being is that with baby, he was one of the more interesting villains in the entire dragon ball road gallery. Because, okay, here's a villain, to where he's basically the ruler of the tuple. People's DNA is encoded into this parasite and basically just go out trying to, um, basically absorb all these, saying so we can take over the planet, whatnot. But the funny thing about this and I know we kind of jump all over place with the baby saga, but, um, I just got to get it out there. So, whole thing is, I just love how baby in the attempt to uh revamp, to avenge his people from the Vesan, taking over and ravishing their planet, became the very thing it sought out to destroy. You know, a rampaging giant golden ape that's just destroying everything. Just because I found that, yeah, I found that interesting, like poetic irony, that's what I could see in it I can see in that.

Speaker 2: 51:29

I would say it was very specific about just wanting to destroy with the home that the plant that the saiyans caught home Um wouldn't necessarily as much as um absorbing, but more so in the fact of hive mind, because the thing about it is, with it being a replica, mechanical, replicating parasite, everybody had a single mind, that kind of worked things together except in that, and then just like answer to baby as the host, and why can't you even say hive mind? They didn't have the exact same mind, but they all knew that they had to serve the main parasite, or say they knew they had to mainly serve him.

Speaker 1: 52:08

It was more like a. I thought it was more like a symbiotic relationship.

Speaker 2: 52:12

But yeah, I'll probably say that too. Yeah, I mean because he takes over their mind, and the thing about it is that remember like for a moment.

Speaker 1: 52:19

No, it's a parasitic, because only he's in the benefit of controlling the host. So it's a parasitic.

Speaker 2: 52:26

And then you can see also like when he was taking over Vegeta and when he was taking over Gohan that it was like they were trying their best to fight it and do what they can. But it's like there's only so much you can do from a parasite in your head. Hell, there was only so much Goku could do from fucking heart disease. Like, in the end, your body's still the outside of your body, your key control helps protect you and shit. But once something is inside, there's not much you can do about that. That's just gone. You're gonna have to go to like a doctor or specialist for that shit to try to really help out. But I definitely say it's that aspect. Yeah, he, that poetic justice seemed pretty cool. I will say baby definitely had more control, especially with being kind of funny.

Speaker 1: 53:09

In the aspect. Well there's, there's a theory behind that, because the thing is Goku and his great eight form. He didn't have that much control. But remember way back in Dragon Ball Z when Vegeta attack Earth and he had great control over the great eight. So of course baby would have control over his great eight form by conjunction.

Speaker 2: 53:34

That's who I think the baby also specifically mentioned that. He said I'm a parasite taking over the body. He's like, even though the body goes through these transformations, I'm still always in control, no matter what, because I'm taking over the body too. So yeah, I can see that theory, but I mean baby did specifically state that I have control. I just want to see what it was like to rampage, just to see what it was, just to see what it would feel like, and it was kind of fun type of thing. At least as far as the English translation version out, I only watched the English dub all the way up until after the baby art, only all the way up to the baby art, because I think that's all that was shown in T'Nami at the time, and so then I only watched the sub once we got like Super 17. So I don't know actually, even yet to this point in the day I still don't know exactly what the sub translation was really is as far as the whole baby arc. I only know the English dub.

Speaker 1: 54:30

I must say hold on. I'm pretty sure that they dubbed it all the way to the end, so it might have been at a time where OK, I'm about to take it off T'Nami by the time you got into it. I don't know, but I remember perfectly clear that I remember watching Super Saiyan 4 Gojita going a good Omega Shinra in dub.

Speaker 2: 54:53

So I'm like you probably did, but at the same time it's OK, like I mean, for me it was different growing up, like I had lost cable at a time. So once I lost cable I could only watch sub by that point online or from like my friends' house and stuff. But Well, one of the happening as far as like that's what I was just saying is like as far as the dub, I remember him just only saying that he specifically said that is because he was a parasite and he could still. He still this is a host body and he still takes over that and that's the reason why he had control into it. So I can see the theory about. I remember in the dub him specifically saying that Towers we have unmuted Did you have something All right.

Speaker 4: 55:39

So, like I said, I gave out plenty of my time. Now it's time to kill. So, excuse me a moment, one moment. Tell these boys and girls to, in the validation of those guys about to understand this is a chronological catch up, and what I mean by a chronological catch up? We're going to put this now within super time frame reference. We're going to place this within the modern times on, because, for some of you, trying to put it back into the old, old way, yes, it's going to be confused because you're going to sit there and be like I don't know if it's not sitting there, how do you get it? So that's shot the window. So let us begin, shall we? So first things first, with the whole damn baby situation. Right, cool, let us be real.

Speaker 4: 56:27

Because of how they've done it, maybe would never actually be able to control. Oh, so that would technically be a be a brand new type of fusion. Even though it looks like a great is not a great, even if it's in the body. Because of how they've written super, because of how they've written heroes, it would be the way that, the way that it went in GT. This is why I say what I said early because of how they've done things. Gt is going to need a whole lot of fixing. Right now it's metaphorically can't, which means, by all accounts, hey, this is what should have happened. Technically it happened, but that also just basically says, hey, heroes is candy Because of how it went. That's basically just showing what the heroes Goku went through, or Xeno Goku went through.

Speaker 1: 57:36

So On that scale, we're going to help you out even further.

Speaker 4: 57:43

We're going to put it like this GT, what is known, what we have now, basically Paul W, is towards heroes. With time, super it's GT has not happened yet, and technically, if we're going to say Super GT hasn't happened Technically, then when it comes back, that will probably be its version of GT, where Moro and all of those come in. That's probably that. That's probably going to be our GT for this side of things. So, picking it off even further, I want to say this baby was one of those villains that literally suck things. Baby was one of those villains that literally was like hey, on paper, motherfuckers, good, this motherfucker looks dope. We got us one. Ladies and gentlemen, it's going to be a broken ass villain, but then you realize this is just a little bitty ass child. I want to tell you because, hey, my people are gone, so now I'm going to try to hurt your folks. I'm going to do to you what you did to me, but when you're raised about not taking that type of revenge, oh wait, but you did though, didn't you True?

Speaker 2: 59:20

I think it would even be funnier to also mention the go back as far as what JB was saying earlier too, because it's still true is the fact that baby is a parasite as a pet is a parasite that actually has the mind. It contained the the Truffle King's memories that had why he had been taken over by the parasite. So yeah, you say this far as is the baby throwing temperature, and yeah, it's the child throwing a temper tantrum with somebody else's memories, still technically not the King taking revenge on somebody else.

Speaker 1: 59:57

It really is more like a fail safety and activated to where. Oh, we'll see who had the last laugh when my parasite baby takes over your people. And but it wasn't even his parasite baby.

Speaker 2: 1:00:11

It was a whole nothing. It was just a parasite that just affected him. It took his memories. Good Then anybody when I think about it in that as I try not to think about it in that aspect, because I want to maybe be like a good, to be like a good villain, but that's why Okay.

Speaker 4: 1:00:33

So here's the thing Right. Here's the thing Right. The thing about that is hey, think about it. It's like, hey, yeah, he, the parasite is actually a tough. Remember, by GT standards, what none would think when I was standing in In the time I live it's still a. It's still a tough. Yeah, even if you don't want to count it as one, it's a tough. Now, putting it into super's timeline? No, it's not. That means it's something else. So, technically, what would baby be? Because baby isn't just a normal parasite, it's a race. It comes from somewhere.

Speaker 1: 1:01:21

It'll be like Breeze's race to where. It's like there's not really an actual name for what it is, but it's a thing.

Speaker 2: 1:01:28

I probably just say like more like venom, as far as parasites that enhance to take over people's bodies and shit.

Speaker 4: 1:01:34

Because, because, because you got to think in GT's timeline they actually thought it's a tough, even if he was, even if he was a parasitic tough, he was a tough, he was still a part of their race already. And the only thing is, as far as his race goes, he took, he basically went and infected the king before the king died, so that way he could retain the king's memories, true? So it's like, yeah, hey, I'm just going to save my race, but technically you're not a part of your race Because you never really technically have a body yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:02:20

But this has got a whole lot more complicated than it was supposed to.

Speaker 1: 1:02:24

I mean, keep in mind, baby technically designed himself when he had Dr Mew is like, ok, I'm going to need you to finish making my body for me. So I'm like, bro, what it was like when I was staying like with Dr Jiro and planting his own brain into his body. Like how the fuck do you even do that?

Speaker 2: 1:02:46

We talked about that before. It was like you can have a machine, do it. Remember he made Android 19 before he made him, so he probably just programmed Android 19 to take his brain out of his body and put it in the robot body. Robot body. That's the only explanation I can give you on that.

Speaker 1: 1:03:02

I wish there was just a canonical explanation, though, like I'm like otherwise, that just looked up the interpretation, like that could have. It could have been Kind of, I don't know, but yeah, you know your way at least. Ok, he was like 19, was like an assistant, ok, ok, I can roll with that.

Speaker 4: 1:03:23

But it's continuing on my slight technical rank here. The second baby was so fucking weak.

Speaker 4: 1:03:36

Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, true, you know, he's not even not even a slight bit of a maybe no, baby was so fucking weak because, as you would see, when he actually started to fight Goku, when he would fight Goku, the motherfucker act like he ran out of energy, like he was literally acting like he ran out of fucking energy, like, hey, yeah, ok, I'm good, I'm not going to couple links on it. All right, goku gets back up. Let me hit your head. Oh my, I need more energy, I need more blood Swap. It's like yo. So yeah, technically, your man was weak.

Speaker 4: 1:04:30

Sure, we're not talking about some of the other ones, but compared to it he was Well keep in mind what I mentioned already before too.

Speaker 2: 1:04:40

One of the things the biggest plot point into it was the fact that Goku was fighting when especially the first fighting baby was specifically in the fact that he was on his child body that significantly weaker than what his adult body was supposed to be. That could be the only real way to kind of go about that. But yeah, as far as, because once he got Super Saiyan 4, he was wiping the floor with his wife and floor baby until they got the grade eight part and then even then, can I talk?

Speaker 2: 1:05:13

I can literally admit it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:16

I pause right there and say I like how the way they go about trying to have Goku go Super Saiyan 4 was. I forgot how they went about until I remember. Hold on, did Elder Kai and Kabuto Kai whatever he's going by did they really just get like a big pair of pliers and pull the fucking tail out of it?

Speaker 2: 1:05:40

Yes, Yep, that shit was funny as hell. I'm like hold on.

Speaker 1: 1:05:50

Why they haven't they done that in Super yet?

Speaker 2: 1:05:54

Because remember in Super they specifically talked about that. Actually they're like, how come you don't have the tails? And it was like you know, vegeta went through his whole explanation that the tails is only as a fail. Was their fail safe? Is the is literally the Saiyan's fail safe to wear in order to protect themselves Like it become a nozuru. But the thing about it is is that once they've outgrown that power, they no longer need the tails anymore, and so because they no longer need it, they don't grow it back. So Vegeta actually did explain it in Super why it's a pretty funny explanation.

Speaker 1: 1:06:31

It's like do you want to be?

Speaker 1: 1:06:34

canon or not, because it just kind of feels like with Super, they trying to rewrite GT, but at the same time, you're telling me years later because keep in mind, super was running back in 2015. And we're now finding out in 2023 that, ok yeah, it's officially canon, gt is officially canon. So it's almost like you were trying to write to a point where you're trying to rewrite GT in a way to make it seem like, oh yeah, that's not definitely happening, but oh yeah, it's now definitely happening, like it's part of the timeline, and I'm like, yeah, this is why some people, or some of the critics, say that when you start messing with multiple stories, it's just going to get sloppy at some point, like in one form or another.

Speaker 4: 1:07:25

But see, ok, but see, I'm going to tell you right now that's the thing. Fans are trying to put it in line with Super. That's the part of it You're not supposed to. This is not a spacing out of multiverse theories and everything else. No, no, no, no. There's an easy. There's an easy, simple thing for this one One. This right now, the one that we have is not Full cannon to Super's timeline, it's not, it's metaphorically, it's kind of however, throughout all standpoints of it, but it's not the cannon that you are looking for. This one goes for.

Speaker 4: 1:08:18

You know go for the heroes timeline.

Speaker 1: 1:08:22

Right, like the whole point being is that I'm realizing that. Ok, so what they're going for is, with Super, this come OK. Dragon Ball, dragon Ball Z, dragon Ball Super that's the main timeline. Heroes, gt and whatever else met like maybe Xenover, even that's like what, if to us to where it's like it.

Speaker 4: 1:08:48

Can not do the main timeline.

Speaker 4: 1:08:50

I get how you trying to put it. I get how you trying to put it, but it's not even what it is. It is still goes the main areas Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Those are main areas. Then you branch out. One area goes to Super and whatever comes after Super, another goes to GT and then heroes, then heroes from and from there, legitimately, like it's where, and I say this whole hardily, it's where, for the sake of GT, it is where, legit, you can see where GT and Super are basically almost the same thing. Only difference is one is where Goku actually became a kid. One is where Goku did not, because if you look at the Super Saiyan for powers and then you look at the Super Saiyan God, powers Damn similar.

Speaker 2: 1:09:59

So similar. In fact they dare say that Super Saiyan for fusion Between Gojita is one of having red hair is pretty much on par with Super Saiyan God powers, Is it no?

Speaker 4: 1:10:20

Look before it, before you even get to power, scalars and fanboys, please don't just Don't do it. Please don't do it, because if you do it, I promise to God and I have to hear about it Me you're gonna have a conversation. I've already discussed several of you. Y'all know who y'all are. I've discussed several of you already because y'all so damn stupid, but that's another rant for another day. I'm not gonna do that here.

Speaker 2: 1:10:49

Tell us. Going back into what Tyler was saying earlier, as far as about baby being kind of weak, I mean, yeah, there's going to be that aspect into it. When you think about the point of, the main thing about it is it was Goku pan and trunks versus everybody. So it's like, by this point, gohan was still no much, no stronger than Super Saiyan. To, literally, by this point, vegeta, before he wound up getting those Tesla beams I call him Tesla beans. I know it wasn't Tesla beans, but For the sake of it, tesla beams.

Speaker 2: 1:11:24

The poem of fucking created the Nordic to try to force him into the. Try to force him into the Super Saiyan 4th one. Because, keep in mind, to this one in Super, vegeta doesn't go Super Saiyan 3 because and he's actually admitted it, because he said he can, he says he has found out how to, but he doesn't do it because of how much energy drain it is. It's the same reason that Goku doesn't use it so much in Super anymore either. He still uses every now and again, but he really tries not to use it unless he really feels the need to. But Vegeta just does not use it because he's like it's an absolute energy drain. He has unlocked it in Super. In GT, vegeta cannot go past the strength that he had in his mod uniform. So that's one thing to keep in mind on today. So, by this point, goku, even unlocking Super Saiyan 4, forcing his body back into adulthood in order to have, in order to control that a mass amount of power, was significantly stronger than baby.

Speaker 2: 1:12:26

And the issue one of being was Goku played around in that form? I still find it funny. One of the biggest things about this dude we admitted so much damn power that he looked at himself in the mirror. In the mirror, cracked from the sheer Now just not just cracked, shattered from the sheer power that he has. It was like Nigga, all I did was look at you. You like I am not worthy to gaze upon your reflection and it's fucking shattered. I don't know, but like, keep them on to it Is the fact that Super Saiyan 4 during this period as well Goku has admitted this before.

Speaker 2: 1:13:02

Well, he meant it mostly a super. He meant it to freeze it. You get a new form, but you don't practice in enough. All you're doing is wasting your energy and wasting your power, and that's what wound up happening because he just went Super Saiyan 4. He did not have a chance to really Feel out how the power works, feel out how he could conserve his energy into it, like he's done with Super Saiyan. So the thing about it is is that by the time we got great 8 baby like Vegeta, baby Goku learned a minute. He said I've used up entirely too much of my power. He's like I was really playing around. I shouldn't have did that and I fucked up To the point that literally Trunks and Pan had to give him some energy back in order to help.

Speaker 4: 1:13:56

Oh yeah, I'm gonna take right now. This is. This is relatively the most silly stuff. Okay, I'm gonna turn into a great eight. Okay, I cool. Now I've turned to a great eight. I'm super strong. All right, those of us at the time, you know, we really want to think about this, like you know. Hey, yeah, oh shit, you can control the Super Saiyan powers too. Now, oh my god, baby, so fucking strong Me and intellectual now, in this case, you stupid bitch.

Speaker 4: 1:14:34

Basically, you basically gave that. You woke Vegeta up and said hey, here's your body back. All you got to is reach, not even Think about it. Right, look at every time what happens to a saint. Right, I had cool, he had control of the Jesus by Vegeta, had no qualms to basically hey, I fight, go cool, I'm not even a step out. Once you set forth to disrespect a saying, especially a saying like Vegeta, where his pride is on the line, and you go and you reach a potential that he's never reached before. What happens, the Jesus? What? All? Right, now I need to surpass you. What happened after that? You took back his whole entire body split.

Speaker 1: 1:15:38

So this is just a repeat of his Quote-unquote brainwashing by Bob it eats, where, yeah you know, I'm only allowing you to do this if it means getting a power boost. I'm just, I just want my power boost out of this.

Speaker 4: 1:15:55

I.

Speaker 1: 1:16:04

Expect this from Vegeta at this point true, not now, not not. Vegeta is super, but you know, definitely I mean, I didn't notice that at the time with baby, but now to think about it, I can't even be mad, because you know this is not new for Vegeta. You will, whatever it takes to all the Goku, apparently, and, by the way, you know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna say this anyway. Y'all seen the newest chapter of Dragon Ball Super.

Speaker 2: 1:16:29

Yes, and why are we hitting the spoiler right now?

Speaker 1: 1:16:32

I mean, it's not like this episode gonna be out anytime soon because you know. Like I'm just at, I'm just saying because you know how Goku and Vegeta had their training, and then, after the training, vegeta started feeling himself and I'm like bro, really You're really milking this one.

Speaker 2: 1:17:00

You always go into, of course he is.

Speaker 1: 1:17:03

You know, I'm not even surprised if you don't feel this way. I'm like, hey, you know what? If a Zenkai boost is on the table, fuck it, have my body. It's hilarious, I'll whore myself out of power.

Speaker 2: 1:17:19

Keep in mind those at this point in the fact that one thing I want I was trying to mention is the fact that Baby never could fully control that power into it, like it was like, if you do one, just sticking with the mindset of he was a parasite just controlling a rampage body, forcing the rampage to stop, forcing it to speak the way he wants it to speak because he's an external being, just controlling the brain. Literally, baby could not turn Vegeta into Super Saiyan 4th. The furthest he could get Was just to get into the great ape form, like getting to that Super powered form when he's like condensing down shit. That still was no, that.

Speaker 2: 1:17:57

He could never get Vegeta to an actual Super Saiyan 4. It just wasn't possible. This you have to have an absolute Total control of that power For that shit to kind of happen per se, because even okay, so let's put it this way, I'm gonna be honest on to it. I know concerned the fact that Super baby Vegeta, that that whole weird costume, futuristic costume, with the white hair and the random red stripes in the face because y'all kept making me forget, but I was mean to point that out.

Speaker 1: 1:18:28

To where am I the only one that thinking like a yo, oh, vegeta with the face, you know the Change of face and the eyes and the hair, okay, when he still had to, like the tank topping on that shit intimidate, I like that, okay. But then when they start a little more like baby, and then he's just got it All that shit like no, no, no. Now y'all getting ridiculous with it, like y'all had something at first, but then now you're getting yes, like no, no joke on that.

Speaker 2: 1:19:06

Those ones, ones like I absolutely hated the design, like I really hated the design. It's like Bro, what the fuck is I mean?

Speaker 1: 1:19:17

It even look like fucking Vegeta by the time he got the power absorption. All this other sale. Like bro, this is not even look like for you. Like yeah, it's almost like the sentiment behind it just was just lost by the time. He just kept absorbing all the other people. You know they were absorbing goons and go to the blue blood. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:19:38

You know. You know, when a power boost is so powerful that it fixes the Jesus tape line, you fuck up.

Speaker 1: 1:19:50

Jesus Christ. He went from Um receding here. A line to Mohawk.

Speaker 2: 1:19:56

Yes, literal Mohawk, like he had the fucking kill mom, you know he's like oh, I'm trans for that.

Speaker 2: 1:20:11

One thing that I never understood is how is it you transforming gives you armor? I ain't never understood no shit like that before. It's the parasite. The parasite has exo armor too. Like so if I rip off the armor, do I rip off the parasite too? I'm just questioning because this armor has been damaged and never grew. But you keep that in mind. When the armor got damaged, it didn't fix itself. So how the fuck did you get armor and transform a? The only person in Dragon Ball who has canonically the powers to just fucking spawn clothes, it's piccolo. It's the only mother fucking can do some shit like that. Look, I was saving it because I was like I know I really I'm gonna talk about this one, because if we don't talk about this, because me, I promise you I was one of those days. I was. I was so hella confused. I was like, um, what, I'm going super sad and then spawn shoulder pads. I'm like From where, nick? Wait, they never happened before. How you go super, saying it's farm random clothing outfit. I don't mean no.

Speaker 1: 1:21:25

I mean, but then again, like, okay, when they, when they had the potara, at least with the potara, when Goku and Vegeta did that, okay, their clothing kind of makes sense to be like okay, just the inverse of what Goku would wear, and a little bit with Vegeta's Boots and gloves, okay, that man. But then it's good like where the fuck does that best come from?

Speaker 2: 1:21:48

I am now upset Because, fuck you, jb, the only thing you're doing right now is literally confirming what Talos just said About the fact that it's a whole nother form of fusion, because, god damn it, the vest looks very similar To the fucking potara fusion. It's no, not the tariff usually to the fucking on Fusion dance vest.

Speaker 2: 1:22:15

Yeah god damn, it is another version of it. Oh my god, I'm going super saying was just more of a fusion. Fuck you, tell us that's where the clothes came from it's. I'm gonna go super saying no, I'm going to become more of a fusion, that's what this was.

Speaker 4: 1:22:37

No, that's what baby Technically was. When he was with me, he was a fusion. Like that's legit he was. He was more so a fusion like. It was just like oh yeah, I'm not a different form, oh no, just a person who just a fusion day.

Speaker 2: 1:22:56

Yeah, pretty much yes, yeah, Now it makes more sense, and now I'm even more do the fusion Fusion dance.

Speaker 2: 1:23:10

So let's keep it to mine on this. So now we actually. So now we have like we could put this on scales of fusions. So we have the tariff fusion that mixes your clothes together for whatever fucking reason. It just does that. And then we have the fusion dance, which gives you a vest, but the vest is also based upon what type of fusion it is. If you have a fusion dance of it, if you have the fusion dance, then you have this particular vest that gets. But, however, if you have a pair of parasitic fusion, you have this vest.

Speaker 1: 1:23:45

Oh, no fusion because, okay, it's like a false fusing. It had to give you like a different vest. Yeah, okay, I don't know how to make that best, so I'll improvise.

Speaker 2: 1:24:11

I Pretty much. That's the only way to make the best make sense now. Okay, so damn it man. Okay, I'll both on that one shit Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:24:20

I mean when you come to the fusion, like where the fuck the vets come from, like they don't normally wear vests.

Speaker 2: 1:24:31

Yeah, true.

Speaker 1: 1:24:32

I mean keep it marked once again go ten in trunks fusion where the vets come from.

Speaker 2: 1:24:39

The main thing that got me is the fact that we had kept this damn same fucking mohawk on the fucking baby big. Grade eight was a reform going to zero form too. You couldn't even have a genius hairstyle. He had to have the fucking mohawk again. Just why?

Speaker 1: 1:24:57

he had the Zamas mohawk.

Speaker 2: 1:25:12

I caught his ass away. Just damn it, man, all right, but yeah, so the baby, arg is where we finally felt like we had some type of villain that actually did something, and the only man was a bad villain because the fact that he was in Vegeta's body it's pretty much still a non like. And then, even worse than that, we're gonna be honest as well too. It's the same thing that happened with the GNU situation, where no matter what baby could not awaken Vegeta's true potential. They taking over the body does not mean that you know how the body works truly, that you don't know the potential board. No, but Zamasu was only one that actually was able to awaken the same as true ability. This nigga took enough beatings and beat downs to have to have fucking Super Saiyan, get Super Saiyan Rose, and it's still keeping mind on this aspect, since now we're talking about GT, since we're talking about GT and I say I was gonna bring it up at that point again too there is still a fan made comic. And it is a fan made comic that because of the fact that, like how these damn Potential cannon events happen and I know Talos has heard, has seen this kind, has probably heard of this comic where what winds up happening is is that let's go back to Super real quick because we're going to go back to GT. This is important, so we hit to Super real quick. Well, why is up happening in this comic is that after Goku winds up beating Some black go go I'm not gonna say Goku black, zamasu Goku, cuz like we're not doing that shit here Once you fight Zamasu Goku and then winds up sending him back to the future alternate timeline, what winds up happening is is that because the ring that that was destroyed over there, he wound up getting another ring and with that ring he's like I need to try again.

Speaker 2: 1:27:06

But he says I need to find a way to get more power. And so he was up talking to the ring saying send me somewhere when I can train and get more power. And what happens is is that the ring sends him into the GT timeline. And so Zamasu Goku, while he's flowing around, notices Goku's energy signature. He's like oh yeah, there's the other Goku.

Speaker 2: 1:27:27

And then GT Goku, who's still a kid. It's like yo, that's weird, I feel myself right now. That's it. That doesn't make any type of sense. But then he realized he says I feel myself, but at the same time, I feel like this is somebody completely different. Who are you? And without questions, zamasu Goku immediately just attacks GT Goku.

Speaker 2: 1:27:47

And so GT Goku, you know, go Super Saiyan. Then Zamasu go winds up, increasing his power a little bit, and then Goku's like okay, so you're actually pretty powerful. And progressively goes from Super Saiyan, super Saiyan 2 to Super Saiyan 3, and then the ventures like Okay, this is actually having a little bit of fun, but I really need to push my power to the limit now and see what happens. And then what happens is that he finally goes Super Saiyan 4. It's a Masu feeling. The energy of Super Saiyan 4 says this is glorious, this is the energy that I'm looking for, this is what I'm needing right now. Fight me, give me this power. And then GT Goku wipes the fucking floor with his ass, just straights up, demolishes Zamasu like it's nothing, beats his ass so bad that the time ring winds up, sending him back To the back, to the future.

Speaker 1: 1:28:42

I like how it seems like the gods themselves.

Speaker 4: 1:28:45

It's just Fascinated by Super Saiyan 4 remember when you were telling me about these being so fascinated by?

Speaker 2: 1:28:51

Yeah, it's in the first to have a whole specific thing where Wiz is like this power is God, like it's amazing, let me see more of it. And something like that I don't remember exactly says, but something along those lines. He's like oh yeah, that's an amazing form, show me more of it. This is what I'm looking for for you In something along those lines. But yeah, like Super Saiyan 4, like just beats the brakes off of Zamasu, send some back. But Zamasu got so much of a power boost from that fight, from that, get so much of a Zenkai boost from that fight. That's how he wound up unlocking Super Saiyan Rose. And so then it cuts back to it's over. They did was. They also added a little bit of a cutback and they added that scene from Dragon Ball Super when they were on reach back when they jump into a timeline. And then Zamasu's like yes, it says the battles that I've had have unlocked the new power. Because he does kind of say the battles that I've had and he like he mentions that it was obviously more than one kind of hinting, that something else was there that helped him unlock Super Saiyan Rose, without actually saying what it was per se. So it's like that's one.

Speaker 2: 1:30:01

Look, it's a fan comic that was made into it very, very well Come, very, very well made comic. If you look at the art style of it, it looks damn near exactly like Toyota Rose. Like I was very surprised onto this one. It was very entertaining too as far as like how they drew the fight scenes out also. So I wish I could remember what it how to find the comic. I would just say you have to probably see if you can find like comic Zamasu versus Super Saiyan 4, goku or something like that.

Speaker 2: 1:30:31

Maybe you might be able to find it. But it was interesting in that aspect of like they tried to put GT as a reason for super happening in that aspect too, whereas Zamasu tried to jump into a different timeline, found GT, goku or probably Jino Goku and, as Talos had mentioned before too, he probably is Jino Goku and wound up like fighting him and then because of that fight is what wound up unlocking Super Saiyan Rose at Zamasu as well. But it's interesting mentioning into that as the fact that, like that's how much of an impact Super Saiyan 4 Of GT has that they're trying to say, oh, that form also Influenced the storyline of Super as well, even though it's not technically in Super and influence the storyline portion of it.

Speaker 1: 1:31:25

You know, hearing all this makes me think. It just fascinates me. It it's amazing how Fans will go so hard for this franchise that they will make shit up just to make like you know how. Um not not saying this in a bad way, but it's more like there's so many things that would have been great if there was an explanation to it. And then fans will go hard and just make like fan made um comics and hell, even Dragon Ball GT, just to you know, fill some holes, or you know like do the work for the People who actually make the shit to where. I'm like, oh well, we're getting tired of waiting.

Speaker 1: 1:32:13

In fact, um, there was this one like fan made comic um, that was like take place in Super, um, not what you were saying, but it happened like after the tournament of power. It was like Dragon Ball Kakume, I think it was, and it was really interesting. Like I thought on youtube, you know like like uh, you know how, with they just uploaded the comic panels and video format and whatnot, and I thought was really interesting and I was like, wait, where the fuck is this? I'm like, oh, it's fan made. Oh, well, shit, like For a fan made shit. Um, it's actually pretty good. If it was canon, I will definitely watch it, just because because it came up that good, because you know it was about how, okay, uh, all these different Universes that got erased, not from the 12 or so, from the tournament of power, but there was more than that. There were like 13, 14, 15, blah, blah. And then next thing, you know you're finding out that, um, I'm not gonna go that far, but there's some shit happening, that Gotcha.

Speaker 1: 1:33:31

Oh, um, then link when I find the video.

Speaker 2: 1:33:34

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:33:37

But yeah, I just think it's really fascinating how there's a lot of fans that would go as far as making fan made comics Just to at least fill in some holes on how um Goku black Got to super st Rose's. Like where the fuck that come from and like oh okay.

Speaker 2: 1:33:57

True.

Speaker 1: 1:33:59

But um, y'all got anything else. Got like a good 20 minutes left. Um tello um who got you anything else to add on to the baby saga, like this first half of GT.

Speaker 2: 1:34:13

Boma was a baby. Boma was aggravating this shit.

Speaker 1: 1:34:19

I mean yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:34:22

Her only purpose was to create the tesla beam cannon and to just shoot as many um negative thoughts, that negative like words to goku as possible. I'm trying to get right baby as much as possible.

Speaker 1: 1:34:39

I know, oh, this is probably a part two, but, uh, but kind of related. I like how, with boma and his bloodswave cannon, um, but jita's looking at both, I was like woman, this is the best thing you have ever done, ever. But nah, I digress. Oh, I just thought it was kind of funny, you, you, it was like I'd never been more proud of you.

Speaker 4: 1:35:16

I was like yo like I'm like oh wait, yeah, like hell, almost fun.

Speaker 1: 1:35:22

Um hypo mode to like hell. You might even make super, say, if I I was like whoa.

Speaker 2: 1:35:30

This really is, but it's a flux of, like false energy, which also wasn't being a point of why it is that baby was never able to try to properly contain it Because it wound up. There's also a theory also too, in the fact that literally Vegeta's super saying for yeah yeah, this more for part two discussion, but but still there's Vegeta's super saying for having them fucking tight as mother fucking fuck blue pants leather pants.

Speaker 1: 1:36:02

But amen but hey from dude that white Yu-Gi-Oh. I was like just something about the leather pants, it was.

Speaker 4: 1:36:12

Where the?

Speaker 1: 1:36:12

pants were uh rule of the galaxy. You know whatever that one guy from breaking more he said it's too much.

Speaker 2: 1:36:19

It's too much. It was like his clothing wanted to be unaffected by the beams itself too, in the fact that, like that's why his shit is blue or Goku's is red, reddish, it's because the fact that Goku uses his own natural energy and this you don't want to be using the um, the big, the beams, energy and shit. I know I did want to read the theory about that one a while back, so I was just like, uh, I was like maybe all I know is it's like if giving me false energy means that means that my dick and my balls can't breathe, I'll pass brown. Goku had plenty of space. Goku's dick can hang in his pants.

Speaker 1: 1:36:56

He had the sin bad pants like Vegeta.

Speaker 2: 1:37:00

I don't see him like they even draw. No bulging that man. That's how tight this. She was like. I couldn't. It was so much. Sorry, that's not a cosplay for me, because I thought she was your favorite Jesus, my favorite character, but I can't cosplay for Jesus super saiyan form. I think I can't do that.

Speaker 1: 1:37:17

She's like Goku, his pants be looking like. Um you ready to say stop hammer, tie Right.

Speaker 2: 1:37:39

That was just that bump, bump was aggravating this shit. But, um, I also found it very interesting as far as, like the super saiyan 4 design with the hair, that obviously like they wanted to continue on the Super saiyan 3 notion Of the fact that, oh, the more power I have, the more hair I have. But I also appreciate the fact of like bringing back the whole nature, not your, your nature's ultimate.

Speaker 2: 1:38:03

This is the only time like this is the biggest call, like the biggest thing, the callback that we had with Goku's story, literally trying originally supposed to be, um, a different version of song wu kong, and getting super saiyan 4 is where now we actually have A song wu kong goku, and that's funny considering the fact that, like we all because obviously it didn't wonder, it didn't necessarily breaking the internet, but a lot of people was talking about it for a minute the most recent fan made dragon ball Um short that they made where it was. Uh, goku was in the tournament of power fighting and we're not tournament power, but he was in the uh, the martial art world martial arts tournament and then what wound up happening was what was it? So the jesus showed up out of an, out of um A saiyan pot, and was like you, you need to be ready, the fight's coming. And then fucking broley showed up and then it wanted to be in a big-ass fight where he became like the flaming monkey, super saiyan type, shit. Um, as far as like that fan animation, because that one was very much based on a mix of song wu kong but also super saiyan 4, where they tried to keep that same little aspect onto it as well I know it's something else, oh, and it still wanted to be super funny because once we got to the term of the power and got a chance to see like the fusion version of, was it? Was it Kefla? That was the fusion name, I can't remember. Yeah, okay, and then so we started getting a whole bunch of little fan theories of like, oh, how would Kefla look at Super Saiyan 4? Oh, here, everywhere, but except the chest. You like Goku, vegeta had no nipples. Nigga, they had no nipples. Yeah, I'll just be an extra. I'll say like the design still wanted to be very interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:40:09

One thing to also keep in mind on this as well Super Saiyan Goku, super Saiyan 4 design was consistent. Vegeta Super Saiyan 4 design is not consistent. It's. The only thing that kind of makes me mad is that he seems to have more spikes later on and Then just one big ass fucking hair spike and I don't understand why was like. It's. The only thing that makes me mad is the fact I'm like Did not even draw it consistently. Like what's wrong.

Speaker 1: 1:40:48

I want to say it's more like with Goku they baby his hair like way thicker and bushier. And with Vegeta it's more like Give him a mullet.

Speaker 2: 1:41:04

And sometimes it shit, goes all the way down his back to his pants, and then sometimes it does it, and I'm like, bro, just Come on, a little bit more consistency here, just a little bit more consistency. Oh, not other than that I really don't have much really else. I just know I wanted to get my little Two cents out about how upset I was about him. Inconsistent outfit Now for part one. For two, I definitely has some shit to say.

Speaker 1: 1:41:34

When we get to super 17, though, because my god I have more to say on part two, but I'm trying to think no, I'm good, tell us you got anything.

Speaker 4: 1:41:54

Nope, not right now. Part two is one of us.

Speaker 1: 1:41:58

Yeah, we pretty much waiting for part two, ladies and gentlemen. So, with that being said, we're gonna go ahead and wrap this up. I'm gonna proceed with part two in just a moment Well, you know, it doesn't know whenever Get back for a mission and then we'll talk about super 17 and that's shadow dragons, and close it up, because we are really just one. Go ahead and get the super, so.

Speaker 4: 1:42:26

Yep, that's a plan. I'm gonna go back to the mission and then we'll talk about the mission Awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:42:43

All right, back from Intermission and we're gonna do part two of the Dragon Ball GT review, but hopefully coca-cola and tuck will be on as soon as they get back. There was one thing I forgot to mention, a part one how, after baby was defeated, the Z fighters forgot, oh shit, we needed to gather the blast, our Dragon Balls, to prevent the earth from blowing up. So the earth end up being blowing up with Piccolo with it, and and they end up using earth Dragon Balls. Keep in mind that the fight with baby took place on I think it was like either a moon or a different planet entirely, I'm forgetting, but um, either way, how they even was able to do the whole Super Saiyan 4 Oozyroo bullshit was they use the earth as an alternative for the moon, which makes no sense. Honestly, I can't defend that part, but apparently that happened. Oh, and then, after the whole thing with baby concluded, they were like, oh shit, we gotta, we forgot about all black star Dragon Balls and Blubba blubba, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:44:00

Either way, earth is restored but Piccolo is up in heaven now and that's kind of Kind of fucked up, because First of all, I was just talking to cook you guys to way back in the Dragon Ball review, to where, with Piccolo now that then day is Kami of earth is like his need to be connected to Dragon Balls. There's no point to it anymore because, you know, if earth has a new guardian and and like I Kind of get it from a sentimental point, but I Just felt like it was a little unnecessary, but I don't know, it just felt like they would just need an excuse to take piccolo out the picture. You know Long-running. Even then I'm like why though?

Speaker 4: 1:44:59

Yeah, I do agree with that, like that was so. That was like relatively unnecessary, because In Z they showed okay, hey, piccolo no longer is connected to the Dragon Balls, so he's not the guardian of earth, he relatively doesn't need it. So why are we doing this, you know? So that that was. That was like I don't understand. Why did you stay behind? In that sense, like now looking at it, like, yeah, why, why would you stay behind? You didn't have to.

Speaker 1: 1:45:32

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like it's one of those things where, okay, remember some parts of the Lord, but it's like you're forgetting other parts, so it just makes the whole overarching things like kind of Pointless and half-mine I think you're like I.

Speaker 1: 1:45:55

We get where you're going for, but Technically didn't even have to do that since um certain events, that's, that's like how saying, um, people still blame in piccolo for blowing up the moon, but keep in mind, master Roshi blew up the moon before piccolo did. And on fucking Dragon Ball. But yes, yep, and they wish it back. Yeah, but then again, whole lot of people didn't watch Dragon Ball, so they wouldn't know that Not done, pick on it.

Speaker 1: 1:46:26

It's just weird how, like even to this day, I'm like bro y'all still having watch Dragon Ball. That's like 40 pretend the fucking store. But whatever, let the meat cake. I guess they want to watch the eyes, okay.

Speaker 4: 1:46:44

I mean, like I said for me, for me it's it's just like. You know, the end of the baby saga is just one of those things that Is definitely going to have to be fixed because, once again, before and before our intermission, literally, like I said before, we are now, it's now cannon. So you know, you can't really make it can into the super line because a Lot of stuff just doesn't make sense. Especially if you're saying super comes with store GT, then how does this work? You know, like, like, how would that work? Because hey, there's no need for pickle, it died. It's really not even with the movies out. Pick a little now has a new form, you know. So that's why I say it's like, yeah, they got a lot to fix.

Speaker 1: 1:47:52

Well, hold on, not enough now that we mentioned that with the movie how In superhero we're gonna talk about, we're gonna do a review on superhero and later down the line, but have gohan got some shine too? Obviously, but he was getting a hard sideline, like I mean, aside from being controlled by a baby in the baby saga, I just felt like gohan was like hard sideline after that, like it was barely need for him to even be in the story and that.

Speaker 1: 1:48:31

Tragic because you know the build up go on was getting in the cell saga. It's like y'all took the character and Got his hopes up and then next, you know, you just took it away right after he got absorbed by Bajibu in the magic boot saga. So I'm like, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:48:51

So that therein lies that also to my. Hey, yeah, you're gonna have to fix a lot of things dealing with gohan as well, because, hey, gohan got a new form, so Hans a lot stronger. So you would definitely have to, because if you're gonna say that Super is before GT, that would still make super saying for the strongest form. But we know super saying for is no longer the strongest form. So, like I said, it's a lot of stuff that would have to be, lots of that are going to have to be.

Speaker 2: 1:49:29

What's good everybody. My apologies for my little rifle, but I.

Speaker 1: 1:49:33

Hey, so basically I was telling who was talking to tell Excuse me, tellos and I was talking about how I Remember in part one I forgot to mention that piccolo. He sacrificed himself along with the earth after they forgot to use the blast, our dreaded balls, to make it to wish, and we were just saying how pointless that is because he's no longer even connected to the dragon balls anymore. Dende is the new guardian, so what's the point of that? And then again we were also piling on talking about with gohan how would go hunt and piccolo? If they're gonna insist that GT is part of the timeline, you're definitely gonna have to fix their development, because you can't just give them new forms and all the other shit and then you just Sidelined them in GT.

Speaker 2: 1:50:22

This is bad. This is bad as far as about the whole people being connected to it. The thing about is that so didn't they was. The new guard is a new dragon balls that would create a new shin rock. However you have a little different.

Speaker 1: 1:50:38

Okay, guys, huh, not a little distant. Like you sound a far away. Okay, my bad yeah yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:50:50

So they did actually kind of explain how it's an echo, because I'm in a small room, that's probably why.

Speaker 4: 1:50:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:51:01

What happened is is that Kami created the original black star great balls, so then that isn't actually connected to the black star drag balls, kami, and Kami resides inside of piccolo, so because he was resides inside of piccolo, that's the reason why I had to, like, die for the black star dragon balls to not come back. Oh, okay, so they did so. That actually so crazily enough is that they did explain that in GT, but keep in mind onto the fact that it was explained in the beginning arc, when everything already didn't make sense. Really, it was just funny at all in the first.

Speaker 1: 1:51:44

So yeah, oh, you mean to tell me I had to sip through the nonsense? Get the explanation.

Speaker 2: 1:51:50

You did, but that was the reason he didn't date. He knew of the black star dragon balls, but he didn't. Actually he didn't become the protector onto that one, only the protector as far as the regular track balls, and so that's where things kind of came to play on that one. Now I will say, since we're not part two, I'm gonna go ahead and bring this up Keep in mind of this, with him being the protector, it should have been more than just the shin rocks, than just the dragon balls being affected by the negative Karma that happens in the making, all of those patients, then they should have also been affected as well, if you want to be honest.

Speaker 2: 1:52:30

Yeah, I feel, but we're probably getting to that one, so you get this a little bit further along. But yeah, that was, but that. That was the explanation as to why is that pick a little? Dying was actually the reason for the black star dragon balls. Now, like that way at this issue never happens again, which really comes in question. Why would the black star, the dragon balls, made the first place?

Speaker 1: 1:52:52

like yeah, no see, okay, I was gonna get to this when we got to the shadow dragon saga. But essentially the whole point of GT is Ayo, we're getting really sick of y'all using the dragon balls, like this they did it twice in the same series like, look, we're getting really tired of y'all using these dragon balls, okay, I.

Speaker 2: 1:53:19

Mean they've made like multiple wishing plus. Also, it didn't quite make sense anyway, but I would assume that with the reset because the dragon balls, like were gone and had to be reset Went by Dende, I figured they would have reset it, all the karma to it. But keep in mind that apparently all the same karma that was present from the when the dragon balls first created were still present even though the dragon balls were, like, shut down. I'm like I just really got a hard said reboot, literally to the point where Dende was able to augment Shinron to change up the wishes, but you telling me that it didn't reset the karma thing. I just didn't accept your name.

Speaker 1: 1:54:04

Nope, you have to live with your sins.

Speaker 2: 1:54:07

Yeah, I didn't make that sense. I was like okay, I guess. So there was some stuff that had an explanation and some stuff explanation was just like yeah, that's make no sense.

Speaker 1: 1:54:21

See, I had to bring that up because otherwise I would have to end up bringing it up as we roll into Super 17. Speaking of which, let's talk about how it's fucking dumb this arc is.

Speaker 2: 1:54:35

Bro, I gotta be, honest, I was hyped at first board.

Speaker 1: 1:54:40

Me too. Listen. The fact that's Andrew 17 is coming back for the first time since the wish on to. You know, bring back 17 and blah blah. I Was glad that 17 was getting some shine, but not like this, not like this man.

Speaker 1: 1:54:57

I, looking back, I hate it. I hate it. Like if you asked me 15 years ago, ajb, how you feeling about Super 17? I'm like you know what, I'm kind of digging it. You know the design and all that one. I'm taking it. You asked me nowadays I'm like bro. First of all, the design. Make him look like he Don't know whether he wanted to be a cowboy or want to start a modeling career with that fucking flipping his hair back. Oh, you know, it's looking here back so many fucking times that on that One moment had like more scenes than piccolo in the entire series with saying something um. Second of all, with all the villains pouring from hell onto earth, they were saying like how, oh, it's Goku's fault that we're all in hell. But that's not true, because most of y'all got killed by Vegeta, frieza was killed by trunks and so was killed by Gohan. So why are y'all mad at Goku?

Speaker 4: 1:56:15

Because how they fought them. So that's why because they fought. Goku is the main main character.

Speaker 2: 1:56:21

Therefore, hey, we're gonna hate the main character I think I'm set about the fact that they weren't killed by Goku and that was the thing, because they all wanted to fight Goku.

Speaker 1: 1:56:31

but it was like he was like I'm gonna pass you on to somebody else, then, like somebody else killed their asses and they were like how dare you go Hold on, hold on Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you telling me that they were salty, that they weren't the one that got killed by Goku? That's what you're going at. Is that what you're telling me?

Speaker 2: 1:56:51

That's what I was. That's what I think about in that aspect. Like that, that was the only thing that makes sense. How dare you go? You were supposed to be one to kill me but you passed me on to your son. You passed me on to your son after After gave, after fully healing me at that.

Speaker 2: 1:57:07

Like I don't like to be honest with you. That's like kind of some real petty shit. But like you really think about it, in that aspect, I would feel petty about that. I've been like you healed me and then I got killed by your son. Like I was at full power and you got killed by your son and I'm like, well, god is the fact that like, oh, he's so much more powerful than all of us. Well, I don't care, I wanted to fight you. You were my special person, that his Vegeta was shown as far as itself. You were my person. I wanted to fight you. And then, if I take it to account, where TFS wanted to go With Bojack before they just completely scrapped it because it, you know, stressed them to fuck out, oh, I would want to say Bojack was that point of like you were the one that freed me, you were the one that did this, but I Was killed by your son, your insolent, son.

Speaker 3: 1:58:03

No need to learn. Professor took in style. I Watch this.

Speaker 2: 1:58:12

This little special app that we use, that we're using right now. I can't see that and I'm so. I was, I was, I promise you I was. I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 4: 1:58:34

I will remove you from this platform. I promise you. I promise you, I will boot you out of here so fast.

Speaker 3: 1:58:42

I.

Speaker 4: 1:59:10

Anyway, back to the back to the retort, back to the Simplistic bullshit. It came right. Oh yeah, let's get back to one. I like this Idea. I like 70s. I cut that, basically, but like the concept of it, the idea of the mother Perfect spot on how ever.

Speaker 4: 1:59:31

How ever, and I'm gonna say it like it is how ever. First, truthfully, they need to try that shit in fucking super. Super would have been better, because one of the why because it's super. At least the villains actually of our I, who we know to Train and get stronger they just threw simplistic ass niggas and go cool with them and go cool with them have trained, so majority of them get ass wood.

Speaker 1: 1:59:58

Hey, listen, why? Why you at it? I like how Napa reunited with Vegeta for the first time since Vegeta killed Napa during the same arc. They didn't even have this whole touching moment. It's like Vegeta. It's been a while Like nope. Vegeta was like yeah, I like you better dead, blast him to oblivion this is good.

Speaker 2: 2:00:17

Just killed Because, like the power difference was that huge Like this, been so fucking long. These niggas are strong as hell, Like the fuck man.

Speaker 3: 2:00:26

Yeah, napa, we could stand.

Speaker 2: 2:00:30

All of us were so surprised when Gohan was like, oh, I'm so proud of Frieza, he can go Super Saiyan 2. All these monkeys and then fucking die.

Speaker 4: 2:00:40

It's like it was nothing like that, look, look, look, I by far, by far right, I'm gonna be real with you. If they were to do this and drag him all to bridge, this is just GT or bridge right, that would be the most racist episode you've ever seen in your entire life. Frieza would be like there's too many monkeys. These monkeys have evolved Like that is literally basically how GT was built, for comic fucking relief. Like that was stupid.

Speaker 2: 2:01:10

It was. Look, I mentioned this to JB, but I, like JB, you remember I told you that TFS wound up abridging this one movie. I had never heard of this movie. I love Dragon Ball. I watched almost all the movies. I have to say that because I thought I watched all the movies but apparently I only watched almost all the movies. So it wasn't like Christmas Tree of Mind that TFS did.

Speaker 2: 2:01:29

It was the other Christmas special that they did, where this alien shows up and releases this miasma smoke that makes them see their previous villains and like get fucked up by them and shit like that. That moment of like bringing back all of those villains. That was done better, at least to me. Then it was like in that one short movie that it was as far as this little jail just hell, jailbreak saga that happened, I'm just like dude. Like because at least even that like they like supposedly killed them there was actually smoke to begin with, so they just reformed back and was whooping their ass Like it actually gave somewhat of a fighting chance. Versus I broke out of hell, oh, I got blasted, because remember this too, if you die after already dying, you haven't been resurrected. You're sent to another dimension. Literally, they're blasted to oblivion every single time. They die in this art, in a literal sense, like the fuck.

Speaker 4: 2:02:31

That's just like I said once again, that's just. It was relatively. What's the word children retarded? That's exactly right. That, right there.

Speaker 1: 2:02:41

By the way, coca guys, you can't even find this fucking shit by normal means. That's why it's so hard to even remember it, because it's like it's supposed to be, like on DVD BHS. Like I remember it was added onto a game, like it was like a Tinker easy game or like raising blast. That's the game I remember that fucking dude from, because he was on that game and I saw the special on that game. But by normal means I don't know what to tell you, but I know we talked about now it was it's not Tree of Might, but the best thing I can say is that it was like it was a Dragonbolt. Okay, this team four star, but it was the plan to eradicate Christmas.

Speaker 2: 2:03:34

Yeah, yeah, that's what it was.

Speaker 1: 2:03:35

I don't know the official name for it, but I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 2:03:39

The plan to eradicate the Saiyans. That's what it was. Yeah, yeah, they literally just switched Saiyans with Christmas. That's what they did, okay.

Speaker 2: 2:03:46

Yeah, the plan to eradicate the Saiyans, because this dude came specifically for the Saiyans. Like he hated the Saiyans and wanted to eradicate them. All of them were dead from the planet, vegeta died, it's like. Oh, they were still Saiyans scavenged out. I must go eliminate them. And that's the thing. Like I said, he had a solid plan with the fact that, like, his plan would have worked because they were all just miasma ghosts. I'm sorry, am I interrupting somebody who was going? My bad.

Speaker 4: 2:04:14

No, no, no, no, you good.

Speaker 1: 2:04:19

Okay, I think.

Speaker 4: 2:04:20

I'm here once again. Listen once again to the bullshit that is trying to be figured out. Like hey, like I said once again, hey y'all, how are we going to incorporate this, now that it's canon? Because there's?

Speaker 4: 2:04:35

a lot of new stuff Like that you can literally not fucking fathom, because, hey, now that I'm sorry, I have to be one of the people I wanted to be canon for so long, but now that it's canon I have to sit here and eat this fucking goddamn piece of fucking steak. That's over, that's well beyond. That's well beyond done. I'm talking about it's not even done, it's just well beyond done because, hey, now I gotta try to figure out and find parts of it. That's just like this can be made canon because, hey, storyline works. But this can't be made canon because either eight they're either eight they're way too strong. They're stronger and super than the R and G T. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 2:05:29

Oh, oh, um, I remember the name. Now I remember this guy's name.

Speaker 4: 2:05:34

It was hot, yet they white sound like you had a stroke saying I know I was like.

Speaker 3: 2:05:42

Oh look listen one more time. Hot yet.

Speaker 2: 2:05:51

Yeah, which does that?

Speaker 1: 2:05:54

mean Other people are like Huiqi, yeah, like yay, jet pay or are you?

Speaker 4: 2:06:11

works because I wish I did you guys have thatCH5000 that. I'm going into that. Let me, let me have the same for now. Let me have your pen sound. It goes. Come on, man, he's like what the heck, hot Chiak.

Speaker 1: 2:06:36

I'm trying to run out of it. What is?

Speaker 2: 2:06:38

it Hot Chiak, Hot Chiak. Oh man, I can't believe it.

Speaker 3: 2:06:43

Look I want to know At this point, my will call it Niggah Hotchirama.

Speaker 4: 2:06:47

That's what my will call it Hotchirama.

Speaker 2: 2:06:49

Exactly, Hotchirama is freaking, bro. But as far as the plans, as far as just that whole jailbreak, it was good on paper. Yes, On paper it seemed good. But then it's just like it's one of those days of like, hey, imagine, like this point of maybe just going to make a D&D reference, just making a fucking whatever JRPG reference here, or something like that.

Speaker 2: 2:07:13

Imagine to the point it's like you skip a bunch of side quests and you leveled up. You kept doing the main mission, but to get 100% you have to go to the side quest. You still have to complete all the side quests. So imagine, you have maxed out fucking level 99, whatever, and you go back to fucking side quests of like level one and then level 10. And you just blitzed through all the side quests like there were nothing, because you were just so fucking overpowered because you went through the main story already. That's what it felt like. It felt like oh, it's the callback of the side quests that I skipped. And now I'm here. For what reason? No real reason. Now, the thing about it is, the only thing is that the jailbreak served purpose enough long enough for the two 17s to finally combine together. That was really the only benefit of it.

Speaker 1: 2:08:03

Hold on, now that I think about it, hold up, wait, wait, wait. I have a question, dr Mew, is he a full android or like a bio human? Like what's the deal?

Speaker 2: 2:08:14

That's a plot hole. We're not going to go back, look, look.

Speaker 4: 2:08:18

Yeah, but oh so you know why I'm going with this Tend to go to the android.

Speaker 2: 2:08:22

Yeah, but no not necessarily. Actually, no, he was a full android. Like he was actually a full android, if you want to put it in that he wasn't because he was a cyborg, remember. He was programmed by baby, like very specifically, but he was not made of like living parts. He was fully cybernetic, like he's full on robot there was no soul thing whatsoever.

Speaker 1: 2:08:46

OK, personal. Ok, so you know, my follow up question is right. Uh, why is he in hell if Android 16, you know.

Speaker 2: 2:09:00

The whole android is going to hell and Android 16 is different because, remember, android 16 was based on memories of a previous. So Android 16, I won't even say that android was in hell, I would say not, but was like not. To him I would say Dr Jero's son. Because if we go based on what we could consider to be canon, I have to say it that way because you only consider canon event as far as what we've seen to be guaranteed true and these are just like side stories that were just kind of advanced to give, like you know, some extra fluff to the story. Technically, like Dr Jero's son, he enlisted in the military, the Red Ribbon Army, just to satisfy his, like, make his dad happy. But he never actually did anything. Bad Technically, I'm correct, he died before he got out of boot camp. So he actually never did anything bad.

Speaker 3: 2:09:56

So you know that meme of like Lord of the First and model or shaking hands and whatnot. So essentially, that's what happened in hell they were shaking hands. You know what? Well, let's both agree that Goku ain't shit.

Speaker 2: 2:10:11

Pretty much, but then the thing about it, though, like Dr Mew baby, is the one that betrays you. Why are you mad at Goku Like the fuck?

Speaker 3: 2:10:20

Because it's Goku.

Speaker 1: 2:10:22

Oh, oh, can we please? Can we please talk about how this dude got betrayed, not only once, but no, not even twice, but it was more like Android 17, or at least Hellfighter 17 killed Dr Jero and then Super 17 killed Dr Mew. Do you see? A panda here.

Speaker 2: 2:10:45

Well, so remember Dr Mew. Well, you probably may not fully remember, but Dr Mew, he had planned it to where he was going to betray Dr Jero anyway, because the other thing he literally had said this he was like ha ha ha, dr Jero. He said you thought that we was like on even terms, said, but I had put in an extra failsafe so he was fully under my control this whole time, so I could have full control of him. And so he was like he had a remote control built in his head, so that way he controlled him. So it was supposedly on purpose that that happened, but Super 17 was so fucking powerful that he didn't need the mind control. The mind control didn't affect him.

Speaker 1: 2:11:24

He was like hmm, mind-wise Are you saying he pulled him with his heater?

Speaker 2: 2:11:29

Yes, we always mention this for the first episode, and the first part of it is literally just recycled. A bunch of shit. Like that's just what happened. But yeah, like that's essentially what it was. It was just that his AI programming was so advanced that he was like oh, I superseded and passed on your remote control. It makes no difference to me type of shit. And so that's why he was able to kill Dr Mew. No, such as 17 killing Dr Rowe.

Speaker 2: 2:11:59

Super 17 killed Dr Mew. Fun shit there. Yay, it's not going to make no fool. There's no way to make it a whole lot more sense than that. To be honest, that's just pretty much what it was. But I would be honest with you.

Speaker 2: 2:12:15

I hated Super 17's design because, understanding this, I liked Super Saiyan 3, but I always hated the fact of no eyebrow shit. It never made sense to me. So when Super 17 lost his eyebrows from a fusion, I was so fucking mad. I was so mad, what the hell? And even worse, it was supposed to be a case of like oh, I'm on par with Super Saiyan 3, because that's literally what it was supposed to be. The only reason he got stronger is because they were fucking stupid and was like oh my god, he can absorb energy. They made some stronger Bless blast him with more fucking energy. Fucking Vegeta and his damn key blast Bali I think that's what they call it in the video games. This key blast Bali attack and dumb shit Like he absorbs key nigga. Why the fuck would you keep doing this shit?

Speaker 1: 2:13:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:13:20

I got him. Really, I need a drink. I'm sorry, but this is the thing about it, remember actually this is something that I know was mentioned. A lot of people has mentioned this all the time this is where you know for a fact that Vegeta has given up, or Vegeta has feels like he has lost all hope that he's going to win. It's the fact that he would just resort to his key blast Bali when that happens. He knows for a fact that he has already lost.

Speaker 2: 2:13:47

Like that is just that's the last ditch effort. He has done it to literally Frieza. He has fucking done it to. Um, who else did he do it to? He did it to Cell. He did it to Broly. Yeah, he's like almost every single time he does it to everybody. Like that's just what it is Like. This is what it is. It's like, oh no, I'm losing. I'm mad and angry that I'm losing. So then he's like I'm going to resort to my final tactic, key blast Bali, where I'm wasting all of my energy for no fucking reason, because this person absorbs it all.

Speaker 1: 2:14:29

Prince, has this ever worked? No need to answer that, never.

Speaker 4: 2:14:43

It's that bullshit. Once again, I say it hard. I understand we're doing a review and we keep doing a review, but at some point somebody got to just be out here and say it. I'm going to say it wholeheartedly it's some bullshit. Gt used to think about it and we were so oblivious to shit. Gt used to be so, so good in our hands.

Speaker 4: 2:15:13

It used to be so great, so great, so fucking good In our hands yeah, but now that you look at it and once again, now there's another time to fucking knew it and you're trying to figure out how to heal this going to work, You've come to realize that even within Dragon Ball Dragon and Dragon Ball Z, looking back at shit, this shit don't make no sense. It don't make no sense.

Speaker 1: 2:15:51

And here we were saying in part one, how the first six in episode, oh, we don't know what we want to do with this project. And then Toriyama stepped in and I'm like, yeah, even with the big guy at the helm, we still don't know what we're doing with this shit.

Speaker 2: 2:16:07

We actually didn't call Mike Super 17 himself either. He didn't have much to do with that. He didn't want to switch me.

Speaker 1: 2:16:13

Got you. Well, oh, there was one thing I did like about the Super 17 or even though I wish there was more to it than what we got was when Krillin and Android 18 got involved, where Super 17 shot down Krillin and Android 18 got mad, attacked her brother and blah blah, and I wish there was more of that, but unfortunately we got what we got where Goku, he was trying to do his thing, trying to fight Super 17. And that was like a slow burn too. It was like going back to the status quotes, where, ok, let's have all these villains, these minions and the main villain attack the other Z fighters and they're just essentially waiting for Goku to show up.

Speaker 1: 2:17:12

Meanwhile, goku's on some bullshit to where kind of like what happened with Snakeway, when he, during the stay in saga, was with this old lady where she was like holding him up in hell with all these different weird ass trials and tribulations.

Speaker 1: 2:17:26

And also let's not forget about Frieza and Cell deciding to stick around in hell just to fight Goku, and they just happen to come up with this technique to send him to the basement of hell. Apparently, that's the thing, and all these other boys are just to delay Goku's arrival to beat Super 17, which, by the way, once again we're going to talk about this in the shadow dragon saga just a moment. But once again I feel like why is Goku playing with these villains? Because if Super 17, y'all said to yourselves if he was built to be on par with Super Saiyan 3, and he's like, oh only Super Saiyan 3? Boom, super Saiyan 4. I'm wiping the floor with your ass. I'm like why are you playing with these villains, goku? I know you like fighting strong opponents, I know that's your thing, but when it gets to the point where you fucking play with these villains, it gets a little ah.

Speaker 4: 2:18:29

It has to be drawn out, first and foremost, before we even go there. It has to be drawn out, as much as some folks may not like it. That's the thing with fights. Even in Super fights have to be drawn out, Because some people be like, oh, why can't he just end it all now? Then he got this phone, go ahead and end this fight. Ok, we wouldn't have a show if he just ended the freaking fight. That's not how Goku works. That's not how Saiyans work. They have to have an actual fight, otherwise it's the get bored is here, yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:19:07

Go here, go here, goku.

Speaker 2: 2:19:10

No, no, I'm saying otherwise. The get bored is here. I'm just agreeing with you.

Speaker 3: 2:19:14

You're not wrong.

Speaker 2: 2:19:15

I'm just saying otherwise the get bored is here. This is what it is. They can't stand for a fight, they only stand for a challenge, because the thing about it is, the Saiyan mindset is broke. If I can't grow from this fight, why should I waste my time from it? But Vegeta is very different.

Speaker 2: 2:19:31

But Vegeta is very different, in fact, that unless you attack his pride into it, you make him like, oh, I'm going to give you a challenge. But otherwise, if he doesn't feel it's a challenge, he just does a quick like I'm just going to blast you and get like, that's it, type of thing. But it's like there's three phases of Vegeta. I'm going to do a big fight, I'm going to just go ahead and blast you out the way You're wasted my time, get out my face, type of shit. Or you challenge him, let him know that you can be a challenge, you can be like, if you get a little bit stronger, he accepts it because it's Vegeta, he's the same, that's just what it is. Well, he finds out that you're way more powerful than he is. He gets mad. It results in Keen Blast Wally and here we are, mm-hmm. Yeah, can I also say I hate Super Seven Seasons on, because it looked like his clothes were too fucking tight on him and shit looked like they were too small.

Speaker 2: 2:20:25

Hands looked like they were too small. It was like Brad, I don't know who your shop, I don't know who your shop person was, I don't know who your dresser was, but like the ass got played out with, like with Scooby Doo a while back ago, it wasn't necessary.

Speaker 2: 2:20:42

It was always something redundant before, but like it's over a tenth of mascot, brad, just get a cape. Just admit it that you want a cape, just do it. The shirt being torn up and everything. And I was like, ok, it's all pre-torn because that's just a cool style. Ok, I found that, but why are your pants too size and too small?

Speaker 4: 2:21:02

But it's wrong with you. Stop, no, right, stop, stop, right. Ok, and I know, I know I'm picking Gigi a card for the skills that it is, I really am. But side note, right? Y'all? See, I believe we brought this up before, when we even spoke about Super a little bit. It will may not have been for a year, but I know a couple people that I talked to yes, it is. Y'all know, this is how a Vegeta and Goku have swapped, and what I mean by swapped, I mean swapped whole freaking Demis. Now it's where Vegeta is not like GT Vegeta, where GT Vegeta is like fight me, fight me, fight me, fight me. It's now like he's more so. I basically am the king of all. You know, in my realm I call myself Frank, but you know, based on the king of the Saiyans, I have a child, I have two children, I have a daughter and a son. I'm royalty. I have to work now. I have now to worry about you know my lineage whereas Goku is now like fuck this shit. Fighting. It's true.

Speaker 2: 2:22:17

That's a serious question. Can I ask you a serious question? What type of mental issues does Vegeta have, the fact that he still calls himself the Prince of all Saiyans, when obviously he's way stronger than his dad was?

Speaker 3: 2:22:28

Because it's a my Lord of all Saiyans.

Speaker 2: 2:22:36

I'm just saying, I'm like, at this point you should just call yourself King. You are, at this point, you are literally a Super Saiyan.

Speaker 4: 2:22:42

I know it would sound good. It would sound, it would really sound good, this point.

Speaker 3: 2:22:47

I'm, but like Goku would clearly be the king, like he is the Prince.

Speaker 1: 2:22:57

I have a theory, I think.

Speaker 4: 2:22:59

Go ahead.

Speaker 1: 2:23:00

I want to hear this. I'm only saying because the way the Saiyans got wiped out and there was there wasn't like official ceremony and a Fittal extension. Yeah, like official coronation. He's like oh, I can't claim that there wasn't official coordination or that.

Speaker 3: 2:23:16

But he was. That was the problem.

Speaker 2: 2:23:20

You got royalties, it's almost like it wasn't proper.

Speaker 1: 2:23:24

It was, like you know, I didn't officially become King, so it's like I can't really just claim that. Because I didn't go to the proper channels.

Speaker 3: 2:23:34

And.

Speaker 1: 2:23:34

I remember, I remember never think correctly.

Speaker 3: 2:23:37

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it wasn't his daddy like a, like a servant to Frieza or someone serving to somebody? Beers, frieza Free.

Speaker 2: 2:23:47

My mother. So the thing about it is that and he was a king, but he's that he was the king of the plan. He got a chance to retain his title for kingship as long as he was able to acknowledge them both. As gods Frieza went around literally pretty much calling himself the god of the galaxy.

Speaker 1: 2:24:05

In other words I think we're like this. If let's think of it like if the universe was like America, beers or Frieza I don't know wherever you want to go with this they would be the president and they were to reduce King Vegeta to like a mayor that's how you put it to where, yes, he is a ruler of this planet, but there's people above him.

Speaker 2: 2:24:37

And that's the crazy shit about it. I'm a mayor of the USA Pretty much, because remember the fact that like was it? Like the whole Frieza troop back on playing man and put down, put down all the same, all of them. Oh look, it's the Loving Prince they always call him still missing your dad. Your dad is dead.

Speaker 3: 2:24:57

Oh hey, lo Keto Vegeta got the best theme music we do. Like what it's so hard.

Speaker 2: 2:25:07

But I think it's the fact that, like you said, like the coordination thing, he needed somebody else to just acknowledge that. I think that's probably like. I guess the backup I would give him to that aspect would be the uncannon rolling movie, which technically is a somewhat canon and alternate universe, but the original, the original rolling movie. The first one is the fact that like it was his dad that was like welcome to this planet of King Vegeta and it was like because he did actually say it one time in the movie but Vegeta kind of like rushed past it real quick. But I like it.

Speaker 2: 2:25:43

In TFS there was this like they made a whole thing about it. Well, all of a sudden, like Vegeta was like never in my life if I needed to hear something so much before, so I got it now. That's the only thing I can really think about for that is that. That's only a backup I can give him to that If he just needed somebody else to acknowledge it. But otherwise, like I'm just sitting here, like you went toe to toe with God At this point you are not Prince anymore. Like dude, just call yourself, I'm, I'm. I'm gonna say, call yourself. I guess it's like I'm going to be humble to my father, but I know we asked this question before. Why is it that he is not wishback planet Vegeta?

Speaker 2: 2:26:26

Uh you know what?

Speaker 1: 2:26:28

No no no hold on. You know what I thought about this. I really thought about this, and I think the only theory behind that is that, keep in mind, with Saiyans being the way that they are, you know, being savage conquerors, it'll be like a repeat of the Saiyan saga all over again, except more and more Saiyans just going to keep coming after Earth, and that's just more and more of their own people that they have to fight.

Speaker 4: 2:26:53

I want to tell you something Hold on, hold on, come on. I want to tell you something Let me go a bunch of, let me go a bunch of things to that foolish shit right. Let's go with monkey rancor to them. Here it goes. Here it goes. Here's a fun, here's a fun story. Y'all do realize that Dragon Ball Z, when they wish, when they wish back everybody. You know they said they just had everybody the breeze that has ever seen.

Speaker 4: 2:27:22

This is true that myth right and by all definition of the word. Back then, even the theories back then were still saying this by definition of the word that myth they wish back all of the others they wish. So they are not there, it's just nobody's going to look at it. What's?

Speaker 3: 2:27:47

the place that Uh-oh Invincible right.

Speaker 2: 2:27:55

Hold on what's the race.

Speaker 3: 2:27:58

The race of people invincible.

Speaker 2: 2:28:00

The Veltrumite.

Speaker 3: 2:28:01

Yeah, the Veltrumite right. Similar let's say they're similar to like Sands, right. Would they have a similar, like outlook, like they would just conquer? Was that what was going on before?

Speaker 2: 2:28:13

Ideas to say they had their planet.

Speaker 2: 2:28:16

They did conquer those that were surrounding, but they didn't venture out too far because they didn't care as much about being major conquerors. So what Toriyama has said is the fact that the Sands weren't so much conquerors, but they were like Spartans as far as like, as far as like in Greek, as far as in Greek history. And the fact that like Sparta was just warrants, like if you brought a battle to them, they would not back down, they would have to battle, and then they had sent out to battle. It wasn't always so much to conquer, because Sparta never really conquered other lands. That was not a thing for them to do, that they would expend their territory as neatly as their population group, but they would never as far as like well, I have to conquer everything. So they weren't so much that type of people per se.

Speaker 2: 2:29:05

The closest thing that I can say into that aspect and considering that we're focusing on super, but obviously because of the whole supposed canonical thing that Mike Travis has mentioned, that this is obviously some absolute bullshit Based on super, and where we're at and where we have gotten into the Renauda survival, we've gotten a chance to have an understanding of what the same race was through Bardock, through his, his scouter, as far as, like, his explanation of things. It wasn't a full, full on explanation, but more so in the fact that he was like, yeah, we are warriors and but we're not, like we're not major conquerors. If anything that they always went to after a planet, it was because they were tasked to do so by freezing the freeze in his forces for even King Cole, because King Cole had had plenty of Vegeta under his rule before Frieza wound up stepping up.

Speaker 3: 2:30:05

What they can do is like make a wish, right, they can make a wish for Planet Vegeta to come back, and then they can, like low key, take over everything like Guardians of the Galaxy. Yeah, true.

Speaker 2: 2:30:17

I would say so someone. I want to put it up because I've heard some different Reddit reviews into it. Like there's a bunch of different theories into it. So one of them going based off memory, but this was one I read is the fact they say, technically, the Shinran has a limit in his power.

Speaker 2: 2:30:32

As far as I call far back in time as they could go, per se up here, if you call bullshit on it, which probably can call bullshit on that, then the other situation that would be would be the fact that Vegeta felt no need to have to try to bring back the planet if it already did not come back after.

Speaker 2: 2:30:59

Like that soul that wish, after Frieza died, that they wish to bring back everything that Frieza and his forces killed. The only other explanation says that Vegeta saw no reason to bring back the warrior race concerned the fact that he's now going to work for a life of peace, but you can also call bullshit on that too, because he still wants to be stronger and fight other dimensions and shit. So everything there's a bullshit for. So there's no guarantee explanation, there is no guarantee. That's what I can give him to that. It's just one of those things like there's all these different theories into it and, yeah, one, shinran is not strong enough to go back further in time. But as far as we understand, the Mekian Dragon Balls have our significantly more powerful. They actually could have and they talked about it, didn't they make the wish on a Mekian Dragon Balls?

Speaker 3: 2:31:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:31:59

So who has the most?

Speaker 3: 2:32:00

powerful Dragon Balls.

Speaker 2: 2:32:02

The most powerful Dragon Balls compared to Super is the universal Dragon Balls, the Dragon Balls that go to different universes, that is, the most powerful Dragon Balls as far as Super. As far as GT is concerned, the Black Star Dragon Balls were the most powerful because they can grant any wish, but the drawback being that it would destroy the planet that the wish was made on unless they would collect it back within a year. And they scattered across the universe and from what Death Battle has confirmed, along with Toriyama, is the fact that the Dragon Balls universe, like Universe 7, is about 10 times bigger than our universe. So them scattering across the universe was a big thing and, like the year timeframe was damn good, not enough to bring all those Black Star Dragon Balls.

Speaker 3: 2:32:52

So this kind of relative, but it's also not relevant. Sheeran wrote them some panties. I wonder where he got them panties from. You don't remember. No, what did he get from it? Who long did you wish for? He wished for Bulma's panties. He wished for Bulma's panties. I thought he just wished for panties.

Speaker 2: 2:33:13

Oh, no, oh, as far as like all the panties, oh, they just came from all over Earth. There was a bunch of windpipes just so mad back there. They were just all over Earth, just like because. Here's the thing about it. So here's the thing about it. If you look at it, you would think that all of them looked like fresh photo paintings. You know, some of them looked like they were warm. Just imagine you was walking one day and the wish just disappeared. You're like yo, what in the world?

Speaker 3: 2:33:34

What's this? Ah, the fans. What, what? I just don't know.

Speaker 2: 2:33:43

But seriously, though, going back into GT, because now we, since we're shooting, let's talk about Shinron. I obviously really want to talk about the Shinron to you. I got the dragon balls, but I said I'm going to go ahead. Jp, you're on this. Is there anything else that you want to bring up for Super 17? As far as that art before we like progress on to what I would say is the best art of GT, ah, I'm good, let's go ahead and get into it.

Speaker 1: 2:34:16

Take a seat. The Jeff's Dragon. Once again, shinron is tired of the Z fighters shit With these frivolous wishes. So they were like, you know what he was like? Okay, we thought with the Black Star Dragon Ball you all would learn your lesson, but no, I was wrong. So you know what, fuck it. And by the way he will. He will look like fucking all shoes. Shadow creature from Blue Dragon. You remember Blue Dragon? Yeah, shinron was looking like that dragon, but different, obviously. Yeah, the Daniel Pipe and all that shit. But anyways, he was getting sick of it. So he decided to scatter the Dragon Balls, which was like colored, like blue, with Black Stars, and they took on like I want living forms, I want to say human forms, but like living forms.

Speaker 1: 2:35:11

You know it was like different source of creatures and whatnot, and you know, goku, trunks, pan, they had to go locate the Dragon Balls and I would say I like how, in a cute way, gil came and watched in some instances with Shadow Dragons as well. So that's cool. But other than that, okay, some of these dragons well, name is El.

Speaker 1: 2:35:41

I'll be honest, they were fucking lame. And then you got to some dragons like, say, the four star dragon and the ice dragon. I don't know if it was like also the four star dragon, I think it was like another, I don't know, but the fire and ice dragon was cool. I want to say that, princess see, that's the funny thing is, before this review, the only other dragons I knew, aside from Nuova, which is the four star dragon, and Omega, which is the one star, was the princess like dragon.

Speaker 1: 2:36:19

The others I had to like go back and be like wait a minute, why don't I remember these guys? Oh, that's right, they just came out from the lane to be able to remember, because one of them was like a fucking mole that was running away and it was based on a wish of back when Vegeta was modding Vegeta and all those people got killed with that blast and they were basically making a wish on the dragon to bring back the people that modded Vegeta killed. And that's why I kind of liked the shadow dragon arc to where each dragon was based off a wish that some of the Z fighters has made, like, for instance, the panties wish. That was the princess wish, the dragon that was in the form of princess. That was the wish she was based on, the panties wish, and she was kind of embarrassed by that too, by the way. So like she got mad and started attacking and whatnot. So that's the two bear.

Speaker 3: 2:37:20

I don't get mad about what somebody wished bro.

Speaker 2: 2:37:24

Because the thing about imagine that you're based on that, like, look, let's just put it this way. Okay, let's put it this way. How many kids? Because at this point, imagine that you're making a wish, you, and this wish makes this baby okay. So how pissed would you be, with you went through and found out that you uh oh, no, I'm putting this. That's aspect, let's put it this way your daddy's a pig and the wish that created you was a pig-ass wish.

Speaker 1: 2:37:53

The way you're making it sound bro.

Speaker 3: 2:37:56

I'm here so I wouldn't even care about it. But you know it's so many people here. They both was made from crack babies. I mean, they both was made from cracked heads and you got a crack baby and I get mad about that shit too. But look, though, if somebody make a wish that I had whole bunch of holes right, a dragon gonna be found that you want what?

Speaker 3: 2:38:24

was the wish Just random, just random, just random. You just said a whole bunch of holes. Yeah, just random. Something, something slight. Oh, excuse me, you want to add a pause to that? What A pause? Did you say holes Like H-O-L-E-S? No, h-o-e-s. Oh bro, I was confused.

Speaker 2: 2:38:45

I thought you said holes. No, it's fine, she might hold lots of holes.

Speaker 3: 2:38:50

You see what I was saying. I might have a baby.

Speaker 1: 2:38:53

I might have a baby, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 2:38:54

That baby gonna be in there and bitches, mr, bitches Like granddad and bulldog.

Speaker 2: 2:39:05

I can't with you but I can't with you. You know what?

Speaker 3: 2:39:09

I'm saying I don't know exactly what you're doing. It's how you came to life. I know exactly what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 2:39:14

I know exactly what you're doing If you watch Big Mouth, that one nigga that one nigga, the one nigga you love.

Speaker 3: 2:39:21

you have to watch it. That's fine, I watched it all the time.

Speaker 2: 2:39:25

But you would know this character Because I can't remember his name, but the one that was fucking the pillow that's who you were, oh yeah. I don't know what he did. Good, I get it.

Speaker 3: 2:39:37

Yeah, that whole episode was funny, bro, but I'm just saying that's who the fuck you were being, because his dad got all the holes, all the money in the world and don't take care of nothing, but fuck this. Because what would happen would be like if San Juan just say San Juan granted my wish, and then a baby come, and then… I can't even tell.

Speaker 1: 2:40:17

Okay, anyways, bro, fast or tucking start, stop that.

Speaker 3: 2:40:24

Anyways with the shadows.

Speaker 1: 2:40:25

Right, I'm going to be honest with you, I really didn't care for all these different encounters. It just felt like, okay, I understand that you had to stretch it out a little bit, but let's be real, shit didn't really start popping up until the one shot. But let's be real, shit didn't really start popping up until the one star dragon came along and he started calling himself Shinron. That's why the others end up getting their names where Nuwo was Shinron and blah, blah, blah. I need to actually look up these names because I kind of forgot about them First off.

Speaker 4: 2:41:03

let's just say it like it is right Shit didn't really start getting good until Nova, shinron, frost Shinron and the last of the. Shinron payments like that. The rest of them were fucking run around characters just fucking filling, like Frost is a beast, like Nova and Frost were fucking monsters. Let's just be real.

Speaker 1: 2:41:33

And okay, and with Omega Shinron, it's really funny how okay his design I'm not a fan of honestly. I'm like, okay, this is a thing, but here's the thing he had all those abilities, all those different dragons, right, and he was like very annoying to defeat. But here's the one thing. One thing I noticed doing this, going back into it, is how he didn't use the you know that first dragon, like the very first dragon that they encountered where he was able to drain the strength of his opponents. Like why haven't Omega Shinron decided to use that ability on Goku or Gojira when he was fighting? Like I don't get that part.

Speaker 4: 2:42:26

He couldn't.

Speaker 1: 2:42:27

Couldn't, couldn't, oh, okay, I guess.

Speaker 4: 2:42:35

Like don't get me wrong, he should have been able to, but we're going to play it how they say it from the standard. He couldn't.

Speaker 1: 2:42:48

Gotcha. So he couldn't, but couldn't Gotcha.

Speaker 4: 2:42:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:42:56

All right. Um, anyone else cut anything for the Shadow Dragon? Oh no.

Speaker 4: 2:43:05

Oh no, fuck them. Fuck them, hold on. No, come on. Fuck them, get the iron pipe. Fuck them, it's all right.

Speaker 1: 2:43:13

That's all good. So you got anything you want to add in general about the Shadow Dragon.

Speaker 2: 2:43:18

The Shadow Dragons. Okay, hold on you ready for me now. Sorry, I was having some issues with my Bluetooth. My Bluetooth is being stooped, so let's get my nerves my bad, damn. Let's do this.

Speaker 2: 2:43:31

Shadow Dragons Shadow Dragons wound up being an awesome, awesome, awesome arc to me. Here's the reason why In the fact of, aside, once we got past the lane dragons, yes, nova Dragon, the Nova Shenron, was the only good Shenron that we had, specifically because of the wish that he was, not just because of the wish that he was, but also wound up being that point of like it was super exciting. I was super excited that it was the four-star ball. Like I didn't know where this was going to go.

Speaker 2: 2:44:03

This is one of those ones that we weren't sure what was going to happen, like we weren't sure at all what was going to happen with the Nova Shenron. And then we meet him and we're excited in the fact that it's like, oh, he's a, he's actually an honorable person. Wait a fucking minute, this dude is actually I fight with honor and type shit, and even to the point that he actually helped out Goku just for a moment, against I, literally. If I'm correct, they just called him Ice Shenron, like the exact opposite. If I'm correct, that's what they called him.

Speaker 1: 2:44:42

Honestly, I've had the sound of Frost, more Frost. I'm better.

Speaker 2: 2:44:45

Okay, cause like there's a lot of different language variations for GT as well. When we got to the Shenron they had like a lot of different language variations, but as far as I get to that, him being an actual cold motherfucker that will stab you in the back type, shit don't care and type of thing, and Nova wound up like would you say that he was a very cold bloody killer. Pretty much, but he was he also was like he wasn't strong, but remember he was the reason that Goku was blind, Right.

Speaker 1: 2:45:17

Right, right.

Speaker 2: 2:45:18

So that's where we wound up having that little point, too, where Goku had to rely on his senses of not using his sight in order to try to fight, and he struggled with that at first Cause. Remember, at this point also, goku has still admitted that it's been one, literally been one battle after another. He still has not had a chance to really like familiarize himself with same form. So it's still one of those things. Like you know, he's still unbalanced to his in his understanding of what that power, what the power of that form really is. So we kind of had a moment that like helped out something. It's one of those things that I'm like, okay, it feels like the writing was getting a little bit better, like it feels like it was finally getting better. And so then we finally get past and we like, okay, nova shouldn't run. And then we're like, okay, now we finally read the sequence going on, and then we get introduced to shit and it was like, okay, this motherfucker Wanda Bean, they're actually dangerous. Aside from the fact that he was more powerful, if he was anywhere around the other dragon balls, he could just absorb them shit into himself. Just because I'm just like, I'm just that fucking powerful, I'm just that fucking badass, I can do that. And so that was one that was like, okay, we finally get some like something dangerous here.

Speaker 2: 2:46:36

And so Shin was already strong as it was. He was already like he was still weaker than Super Saiyan 4, but he was also still fighting against, you know, blind Goku, so you can still take that to his advantage. He was maximized that shit to his advantage. It was like, even though you may be able to sense me as far as power, all he had to do was just augment his power level a little bit and Goku couldn't sense it anymore. And Goku was pissed about that. He was like, fuck, this is actually a little bit more difficult.

Speaker 2: 2:47:05

I actually can't sense where you are, because at least with Nova and with, I would say, ice or Frost, their energy gives off that temperature as well, like you. Just you feel it. Nova gives off the power of the sun and you know Ice was like gave off some zero power. So you can still feel that energy that they tried to like dampen it and stuff. Shin could not do that whatsoever. His was just straight up power, and so that's what kind of made him dangerous and the fact that he was able to support. The presence of power level had made it difficult to fight him, and so the most annoyance during the Shin fight and Omega Shin Run fight is our fucking announcers in the back, fucking pan and they were screaming out you got it, grandpa, you can do it.

Speaker 2: 2:47:54

Go, go, go. You got it. That's like shut up. He can't see, and the nigger is high on his power level. He has to rely on his other senses. He eliminated his sense of sound. You dumb motherfuckers, shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2: 2:48:09

But you know, I'm just saying, would that not piss you off? That's like, literally, that's how they beat their devil in one time. That's how that's the only reason their devil sometimes loses is the fact that, like they over hit that sound and it's usually his own fucking people that's doing that shit. Yo man, you good Nigger. I was until you started speaking. Now I can't see him in you. The fuck is wrong with you.

Speaker 2: 2:48:33

It messed up my echo when he was. It threw me off my groove, literally, yes. So it's like it aggravated his head and so. And then we also had that moment where, you know, goku had to again absorb the same powers of other Super Saiyans in order to try to get his energy back, because he overused his power in Super Saiyan 4. And one, of course, major plot point, little plot hole, that kind of happened. He couldn't, he didn't, revert back immediately, which is stupid. The most dangerous part of that arc was when Omega Shinron was whooping Goku Super Saiyan 4's ass after he got a power boost and still was whooping that ass and wound up like throwing Goku, and I remember this vividly in my mind as a kid. He threw Goku into a building and then Goku was hanging by his leg with like a metal beam was impaled through his leg.

Speaker 2: 2:49:30

Yeah, I remember that, and he was like swinging back and forth and shit like that, and they were like, oh my god, we gotta save him. Like this is not good type thing. And then finally, vegeta says, fuck it, my power is too weak. I'm gonna have to use the Omega beams and give me the power boost the plus waves. The plus. Yes, well, it was a weird stupid name anyway.

Speaker 2: 2:49:59

But yeah he wound up having to use that and finally decided to go Super Saiyan 4. And of course we still get. And this was actually funny. They copied this almost exact scenario off of what happened with the Jinnimba fight. So remember with the Jinnimba movie, the Super Jinnimba, where Vegeta showed up and he went Super Saiyan and was going up and was trying to fight against Super Jinnimba but was getting his ass abruptly whooped and Goku was like yo, we gotta do the fusion, it's the only way. And Vegeta was like never in my damn life I would rather die before that shit happens. They literally copied almost that whole segment, just replaced the background with the broken city area and then replaced Super Jinnimba with Omega Shinron. If you compare them two back to back, they kind of just copied that shit. We're almost worth it.

Speaker 1: 2:50:49

Oh, can I also say that this time around, instead of Goku suggesting fusion, it was Vegeta that brought it up.

Speaker 2: 2:50:58

Yeah, and that was something that made nothing of sense whatsoever. Nothing, vegeta would never want to, whatsoever. But no, all of a sudden we're going to have the fusion.

Speaker 1: 2:51:06

If I was Goku in that situation, I'd be like Vegeta. That's the out of character out of you. Yeah, that's the out of character of you. Is there something wrong with you?

Speaker 2: 2:51:16

Are you drunk? Did them waves like, change your mindset on some shit too, like what the fuck, what the fuck. And so then we finally get Super Saiyan 4, gojita, this motherfucking badass who wasted his time with a motherfucking party, kamehameha way.

Speaker 1: 2:51:36

Yeah, see, that's the thing it was like it was getting really cool. But then once again, he was kind of playing with his opponent. I'm not saying like at this point I'm like not trying to nitpick too much, but like that's just how it was. It's just like that it was playing with.

Speaker 2: 2:51:52

This is what led to like that fan theory of like, when the fusion of Potara, vegeta's mindset took over more, but with the fusion dance, goku's mindset took over more type of thing, because it was like Vegeta, like Gojita. Gojita was just nothing but an absolute goofball and remember, he still was not canon whatsoever. Like I even mentioned this for Super Jinnimba At this point he was still not canon, it was only just movies and GT. So it was like a what if a could be? And people was like no, make Gojita canon, do this shit now, type thing. So but it was like, if we did make him canon, and this nigga was this much of a goofball, is it really worth it?

Speaker 1: 2:52:36

152 episodes and a movie later.

Speaker 2: 2:52:40

That part. But then also now let's put it this way too. I'm going to be honest with you. I expected the Big Bang Kamehameha is so much better in video games than it was in GT. At first he pulls up the Big Bang ball and he's like Big Bang Kamehameha, and then it's like just some random lines just start, oh my God, it being blitz with sparkles. I was like what the fuck is happening here. I was like Gojita is just a goofball all around at this point, Like I just don't understand this thing. What the fuck? But you do the Big Bang Kamehameha and you're fucking like the video games. That shit pops up the Big Bang ball and it's an actual ginormous beam. But what didn't make sense to me is that it was supposed to be their best iconic moves. What, not a final flash? Kamehameha be better than a Big Bang Kamehameha.

Speaker 1: 2:53:45

Yeah, but once again.

Speaker 4: 2:53:47

Nope, nope, nope, nope. You even go that far. Nope, let me go and tell you why not. Why? Because in GT, once again, ladies and gentlemen, the continuity of this bitch is where it is In GT. Gt is going off of how fans were in Dragon Ball Z. Fans were more big on the Big Bang than they were the final flash. They didn't like the final flash. Final flash is trashy. So fans, you know, fans got what they wanted Big Bang. Kamehameha, which, like you said in the games, that motherfucker is superb. I'm talking about that bitch is just like just for free. It looks so good, but then when you look at it in the fucking show, are you telling me, bitch, that all you get with is sparkling rays of sunshine, rainbows, unicorn ass, and you want to be talking about some um darling, fuck out of here. This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 2:54:55

I was like, it felt like.

Speaker 2: 2:54:57

I was sitting here like, so here's the thing, though, like at first I was questioning, it was questionable when it came down to Geneva, when he wanted to be in attack with the sparkles that went in his body and then, like, broke him up into multiple pieces. It started off crazy, but then, like it got better. At first he was like just thinking just through sparkles at my ass, like really. And then he's like, oh, he broke, exploded from the inside. Okay, we got something that actually kind of meant for something. It felt like something, and the big bang sparkle wave was not in. That was not a breath.

Speaker 4: 2:55:28

Like I said, vigito, vigito has it. God damn it. Look, look once again, vigito is straight Vigito. We understand, we know why Vigito does what Vigito does. We know why the motherfucking sparkles hit the way they do. We get that Go G tub. On the other fucking hand, go G tub. That motherfucker there was done dirty, which is why I can't wait for them to bring him back. When they bring back go G tub, when they bring back the ever loving monster that is going to be in super praise, be because we're over the fuck fighting him.

Speaker 3: 2:56:12

Bro, I'm still waiting, it's because it's the prince of all Goku, I'm still waiting for the part where it's what it got about the bang.

Speaker 4: 2:56:24

I'm about to bang your head like. This is a discord goddamn server. That's what it got, not in my Christian Minecraft server. You will not do that to the end, god damn you.

Speaker 1: 2:56:36

I'm sure we're going to see if they're going to do a fusion to wear ultra instant Goku and ultra ego. Vegeta will go.

Speaker 2: 2:56:44

I don't think they will, because if they do, if they do, patar, yes, that's the only way. Because, remember, keep in mind, this is number one, the fusion dance. It was that like they had a whole half an episode explanation for it, with training, go 10 and trunks to do it. In order for the fusion dance to work, you have to match your power. Ultra ego and instinct are nowhere. Nowhere match power. What's that?

Speaker 4: 2:57:15

Oh however long drawn out explanation Okay so, so right, let me explain this here and I want folks to understand very clearly God, I love you so much. However, comma, ultra instinct oh well, master's ultra instinct and ultra ego, they are relatively within the same power gap, so it could be possible for them to use so for fusion. However, I'm going to say this now. A lot of folks may not like it. They're not going to receive you super saying, for they won't. Now, what is being rumored is that the kids will not go on, but go 10 and trunks go 10 and trunks will probably get super saying, for I'm going to relevant about it, I'm going to be honest about that.

Speaker 1: 2:58:04

Oh man, honestly I'm kind of banking on Broly, because the way his wrath Well.

Speaker 4: 2:58:09

I mean they're saying Broly might get it as well, because if Broly gets the motherfucking thing, yeah, we know where that's going. La motherfucking nightmares are coming through, like Broly gets super saying for yeah, good luck. Ggs, all the motherfucking goddamn fights that y'all was talking about. Oh, broly, loses this bit. This month I got super saying for not no money, don't that one? I'm losing fights, no money.

Speaker 2: 2:58:41

But to Yamato it's hard to actually say that super is entering his final part right now. So they're actually playing on finishing, so that is about to actually come to an end. So we're going to see really what happens. Instead it might want to be Dime up that we want to be a real conclusion as far as, like, what may happen into that aspect, we might not get that super.

Speaker 1: 2:59:04

Now that I think about it, it kind of feels like Dragon Ball Dime is going to feel like I am Groot, where you know it looks you at first and you're like, oh, all right, hold on, hold on. Oh, there's got to be some, there's got to be some sort of significance to this whole shit, other than making all the kids, all the characters, like kids again, like what's the big picture here, like where you're going with this one.

Speaker 3: 2:59:30

Oh, obviously they're going to case closed.

Speaker 4: 2:59:39

Once you're for this, oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 2:59:42

What the?

Speaker 4: 2:59:42

fuck, I told you, this is one fucking new button. What got you in new button?

Speaker 2: 2:59:56

Y'all don't understand, thank you, but no, but no, that's it. But that's all I had as far as you just showed us. I really wanted to make sure I got that off, because at first it was, like you know, we already talked about the red hair and then possibly being like God mode per se, like an actual touch of God mode, before we got introduced to Super Saiyan God and shit. But I mean, even in that aspect, if we're going to be honest, now Super Saiyan blue gojita has been confirmed to be significantly stronger. So I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 4: 3:00:39

Oh, was there anything else about?

Speaker 1: 3:00:40

the children and the saga that I want to talk about. Oh well, you know, obviously, omega Shinron or Shin, however you want to classify him he gets defeated. And then, you know, shinron pops up again and I was like okay, well, you know what, how about this? We will fix all of this, no problem. But Goku, buddy, I'm going to need you to come with me. And then Goku's like okay, well, I see what this is. All right, well, let me just say goodbye to like two people and then we can just head off. And that was pretty much the end of Dragon Ball GT. Anyone else got anything at all to GT in general.

Speaker 4: 3:01:24

Other than that lame ass ending of hey Goku, you know you've done enough. You got to go fly off somewhere. We're going to put the Dragon Balls in your body. So that way, this, that happens, and everything else in between. Yeah, it was pretty decent. We shall see.

Speaker 1: 3:01:40

It felt like I'm sorry. It felt like they were trying to do the same thing with the fucking the sell saga to where, essentially, with Goku being out of the picture for a while, it'd be like okay, maybe it'll be peaceful from now on, to where nobody's going to need the Dragon Balls, Nobody's going to need to go to Earth to kill Goku because of something he did back in the day. So it was like okay, with the Dragon Balls and Goku gone, maybe the Earth will be normal for a while.

Speaker 2: 3:02:12

Here's why that's bullshit. Here's why, if the main protector leaves, I'm going to come fuck up everything, because the main protector is gone.

Speaker 1: 3:02:22

That's true.

Speaker 2: 3:02:25

Okay, I'm just saying plus, on top of that, you took the Dragon Balls with you too. So now you have no chance. There's no wishing for mortality, there's no wishing to be stronger than me, there's no wishing people back, so there's no revenge.

Speaker 1: 3:02:39

Yeah, so it's like, what is there love to do?

Speaker 2: 3:02:46

There's a reason why Dragon Balls hate F, and I know we're not going to talk about that, but like after I think it's called after final or something like that with Kid Goku. That's why that never took off, because it made no sense. At that point you drew a move.

Speaker 1: 3:02:57

I was trying to call something else like Dragon Ball apps along.

Speaker 2: 3:03:02

Yeah, absolute. Yeah, yeah, it was weird, but the thing about it is that that's why they never took off. Because you took off, you took away the Dragon Balls. The original Dragon Ball started off because we were searching for the Dragon Balls Everything else. You still use the Dragon Balls. If you remove the Dragon Balls, it is not Dragon Balls anymore.

Speaker 1: 3:03:19

They really just wanted this franchise. At the end I'm like y'all still want more episodes, god damn. All right, we'll come back with Dragon Balls. What's it for?

Speaker 2: 3:03:28

Then three minutes of the timeline. I'm like, yes, good Lord, but that is it. I don't have anything else and I'm getting hungry, so I'm about to eat.

Speaker 1: 3:03:39

So I feel that anybody else got anything.

Speaker 4: 3:03:44

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. I'm ready to talk, I'm ready to put this motherfucker here off the time clock and clock it, fuck off.

Speaker 1: 3:03:53

Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen the Dragon Ball GT review. We will be doing Dragon Ball Super, hopefully in May, as early as May, but you know we got a whole bunch of other reviews that we need to knock out of the way. First, because we got to get caught up in Talos favorite franchise, the MCU. We got to talk about Secret Invasion, loki and the Marvels and Echo and a whole bunch of others. Until then, stay nerdy, my friends, and remember that great thing's right on me. We are zoning out. Take it easy.